Fixing rot

[Paul H (admin)]

Sunny weather, took the cover off MilliBee and look what I found:





The worst damage was caused by the bow roller tilting and cutting into the wood (it is removed in the photos). I had epoxied and screwed an aluminium plate to protect the wood, but that is down in Davy Jones' locker.

Apart from obvious scraping of dead wood then a coat of Ronseal's wet rot treatment, I'd like advice on the next steps. They include:

1 Splicing in red mahogany, which will be far more durable than the pine I used 14 years ago.
2 Doing nothing
3 Removing the entire gunnels, held on by 15 screws each side and now rusty (what was I thinking?).
   Then replace with red mahogany, reclaimed from various old boats.
4 Some other cunning plan


cheers
Paul

[Timmo]

Ouch!

Must take the covers off my boats. Hope no such bad news.

My vote on your options... change the gunwhales completely if you can.

Stay well!

Tim.

On 24 Mar 2020, at 11:43, Paul (admin) [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sunny weather, took the cover off MilliBee and look what I found:





The worst damage was caused by the bow roller tilting and cutting into the wood (it is removed in the photos). I had epoxied and screwed an aluminium plate to protect the wood, but that is down in Davy Jones' locker.

Apart from obvious scraping of dead wood then a coat of Ronseal's wet rot treatment, I'd like advice on the next steps. They include:

1 Splicing in red mahogany, which will be far more durable than the pine I used 14 years ago.
2 Doing nothing
3 Removing the entire gunnels, held on by 15 screws each side and now rusty (what was I thinking?).
   Then replace with red mahogany, reclaimed from various old boats.
4 Some other cunning plan


cheers
Paul

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NAML

[Paul H (admin)]

Timmo wrote

My vote on your options... change the gunwhales completely if you can.

Stay well!

Plenty of time for it ha ha

Paul

[Alan]

I can help. Plenty of mahogany here from the old industrial workbench I brought home when the new boss replaced it with ****board. 9ft 6in length x 1.75 in thick. I am about to get the table saw out today or tomorrow. No charge, but I don't suppose you will be able to acquire it or have it delivered (from NW Kent) until after the lockdown.

[inwe]

Lets get one thing straight mahogany IS red. The only thing to do with rot like that is to remove it all and replace with a good quality timber. You get what you pay for. African Khaya  is mainly pinkish , similar to American Swietenia  . Both these are used in shipbuilding for planking. The better and much redder version Khaya senegalensis is denser but commercially rarer. Of course the very rare Cuban which was the original furniture mahogany was a marvellous timber, I was once privileged to make a jewel box from this wood , I have never seen any since.
Whatever you get , and oak would be quite good (laminated) soak the raw wood in something like cuprinol before painting.

Richard

[Paul H (admin)]

Alan,

Thank you for such a great offer. There is no rush as it will take a while to remove the old wood (as Richard advised).

After 45 minutes of fiddling to remove four bolts holding the bow roller, I found the screws are impossible to unscrew due to rust - lesson learned. I had to resort to carefully chiselling the old wood along the grain around the screws, then using a 4.5in angle grinder to cut the screws close to the hull:



You can see the glass fibre cloth that was epoxied before I rolled the hull. The gunnels didn't make a strong bond in places, careful use of a chisel broke the bond.

Two screws down, and a hell of a lot to go! I'll try a faster technique tomorrow; use the angle grinder on wood and screw together, then plane or jigsaw the wood away.

Richard - thanks for the advice.


Keep tuned for the daily update folks. It should help with cabin fever.

-Paul

[Timmo]

Bimetal blade in your Bosch oscillating multi tool should cut those screws off flush.

Tim.

On 24 Mar 2020, at 23:31, Paul (admin) [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Alan,

Thank you for such a great offer. There is no rush as it will take a while to remove the old wood (as Richard advised).

After 45 minutes of fiddling to remove four bolts holding the bow roller, I found the screws are impossible to unscrew due to rust - lesson learned. I had to resort to carefully chiselling the old wood along the grain around the screws, then using a 4.5in angle grinder to cut the screws close to the hull:



You can see the glass fibre cloth that was epoxied before I rolled the hull. The gunnels didn't make a strong bond in places, careful use of a chisel broke the bond.

Two screws down, and a hell of a lot to go! I'll try a faster technique tomorrow; use the angle grinder on wood and screw together, then plane or jigsaw the wood away.

Richard - thanks for the advice.


Keep tuned for the daily update folks. It should help with cabin fever.<img class="smiley" src="x-msg://5/images/smiley/anim_crazy.gif">

-Paul

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[Paul H (admin)]

Tim,

The oscillating tool would work well, but the hull can resonate the noise like a drum. I have to think of the neighbours, some of them are elderly.

However, I think the angle grinder is the noisest and the gunnels are rock solid so hopefully won't resonate.

A surgical strike is needed, 5-10 seconds on each screw then break for coffee.

Another option along the deck is my Bosch jigsaw with a metal cutting blade.

Chiselling the wood is very therapeutic though. I have a floorboard saw with fine teeth which might cut nails.

Cheers
Paul

[Timmo]

Or go old school, wrap insulating tape round one end of a hacksaw blade to make a handle and patiently (but quietly) cut them by hand. When the blade goes blunt move the tape to the other end and make it a pull rather than push saw.

Admit I if I was a neighbour I'd appreciate some consideration.

Tim.

On 25 Mar 2020, at 09:05, Paul (admin) [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Tim,

The oscillating tool would work well, but the hull can resonate the noise like a drum. I have to think of the neighbours, some of them are elderly.

However, I think the angle grinder is the noisest and the gunnels are rock solid so hopefully won't resonate.

A surgical strike is needed, 5-10 seconds on each screw then break for coffee.

Another option along the deck is my Bosch jigsaw with a metal cutting blade.

Chiselling the wood is very therapeutic though. I have a floorboard saw with fine teeth which might cut nails.

Cheers
Paul

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[Chris Waite]

Plenty of time, yes

But every damn thing I want to do requires some other item that I do not have to hand.  Ordering deliveries is somewhere between a joke (a couple of litres of white spirit) and impossible (victuals)....

CW  

[Timmo]

And I needa  spark plug, seems most likely way to get the lawnmower runnng... can get it by 22nd April by urgent delivery from Amazon. Not much better elsewhere. Checking into alternative brands.

If I could pop out to Halfords they'd probably have it sitting on a shelf.

But I'm staying put.

[Paul H (admin)]

Day 2

The worst rot was on the top edges, possibly condensation from the tarp.

After a while I found the pine was in good condition, so I decided to stop around 400mm from the bow.

Amazingly careful chiselling left the glass-fibre sheathing mostly intact. I might not have washed the amine blush away, or failed to prepare the surface on the Port side. The wood was fully bonded to the epoxy, but with sheathing done a week before there is not a chemical bond to the outwhale, just a mechanical bond.



The starboard side seemed to have a stronger bond. Water seemed to have crept into the top joint between outwhale and hull:



What is the trick to remove rusty screws? Remove all the wood surrounding the screw with a chisel, grasp the screw shaft with a mole grip wrench and unscrew - easy.


As the bow is still rock solid with the outwhale sections removed, my plan is:

Sand both sides, wash as required, seal with epoxy, paint with Jotun undercoat then red topcoat. Then screw some mahogany outwhale without epoxy, allowing it to be sacrificial and replaced/varnished as required. As much as I hate them, chunky brass screws are probably best. Stainless has a habit of snapping.

But, where do I get the toxic Jotun hardener I have run out of? The delivery fairies?

If my plan is slightly mad, like myself, suggestions are welcome!

cheers
Paul

[Port-Na-Storm]

Hi Paul.
Do not use brass screws. The salt water will cause the zinc to leach out leaving soft and weak copper. Use bronze or stainless, countersunk and plugged of course.

I get my Jotun paint from here,
 https://www.marineindustrial.co.uk
 
They will fed ex to your door.
You will need to give them a ring and set up an account. They are very helpful.
Good Luck
Grum.

Sent from my Xperia by Sony smartphone

[inwe]

Paul don't just butt new wood against the old. Put a reasonable halving joint in, say at least 4" to give a good bond. I know it means a little more work but the results will be a lot stronger.

I do know how to get old fixings out but it involves getting an arc welder , dabbing the electrode end onto the screw head and letting the screw heat up a bit! Beware!!!

Richard

[Paul H (admin)]

Graham,

Thanks for the link, I'll call them tomorrow.

Richard,

My plan was to not epoxy old to new. Just screw the new section without epoxy, and possibly extend it later.

I cut the old wood at 45 degrees to create a streamlined leading edge - in the unlikely event I hit dockside ha ha.


I forgot to mention that after discussion with CW I would use the flat bowsprit I created a while ago. Maybe a foot overhang, with the bow roller and anchor further forward where it is less likely to damage the hull.

Cheers
Paul

[Chris Waite]

Delivery fairies, eh?

Yesterday I found one that had crawled under the van and fainted

Diagnosis - dehydration and low blood glucose

You do talk tosh Christopher

CW

[Paul H (admin)]

Plan B

As the Draconian Police have slowly clamped down on entirely safe small boat sailing (), the boat maintenance time has grown exponentially:




I have 8 floorboards from Timmo's ex-Heron, bereft of life, once nailed to its frame but now has ceased to be.
The floorboards are some sort of mahogany that only Richard could identify. Approximately 72mm wide, 1.85m long and 10mm thick.

Eyeballing it, floorboards could replace the pine gunnels:



I also have rubbing strakes from the non-Heron and a non-Mirror, which could be screwed to the floorboards.

So the quandary is whether the floorboards should be epoxied or screwed to the hull, whether to trim the boards as wide as the pine (48mm) etc.

Advice is welcome.

Stay well
Paul

[simplesimon]

Unless they're totally sealed, screw them.

I spent a lot of time this last winter removing floorboards to retrieve things that had fallen underneath!

Simon

[Chris Waite]

Unless I am mistaken Simon

I think Paulie intends to use the floorboards as replacement rubbing strakes, not floor boards.  I screwed the rubbing strakes onto my little gaffer from inside to avoid needing wooden plugs and more so, so that I could remove them to get at the top fixing for the chain plates, which run behind them -



They are some form of amazing hardwood.  I epoxied just the inboard surface and allowed to set, before fitting and every now and then, I oil the working surface.  The idea was that any water could run down between them and the hull and dry out as life allowed.  I've not checked in the last decade, but in the previous, first ten years after their installation, they were fine.

Good Lord!  My poor little boat has been out of the water, waiting patiently, for a decade

Life is apparently what happens

While you're making

Other plans

CG



   

[Paul H (admin)]

Chris is correct - my challenge is to use my stock of hardwood to improve/renovate MilliBee.
If it wasn't for the damn steel screws I embedded in 2006, I could chop the pine gunnels off in 15 minutes with a jigsaw/electric plane.

I can hear them pining for the fjords.

I could reduce the problem 50% by focusing on starboard, which needs some TLC. Port was sanded to bare wood and given the full varnish treatment last year, so it's looking great with the rotten bow section surgically removed.

Paul