No Free Lunch

[GregHBBR]

Forthsailoar wrote

Surely the point is, if you don't know about HBBR, you won't search HBBR, but "home boat building" or similar.

Exactly! There's confusion about the two issues:

1. You shouldn't need to tell someone to search for the forum because the URL is so obscure no one can remember it.

2. To rise high in search results both the title of the page and the URL need to contain the terms for which the search is made.

Issue #1 Concerns telling people.
Issue #2 Concerns searching for what we offer

I suggest we should seek to rectify both issues!

[Jeremy]

GregHBBR wrote

Exactly! There's confusion about the two issues:

1. You shouldn't need to tell someone to search for the forum because the URL is so obscure no one can remember it.

2. To rise high in search results both the title of the page and the URL need to contain the terms for which the search is made.

Issue #1 Concerns telling people.
Issue #2 Concerns searching for what we offer

I suggest we should seek to rectify both issues!

Why?

We're not selling anything, so we have no need of "enlarging our customer base" by telling more people
Why do we need to attract more like minded souls?  Do we actually need vast numbers of people here?

I'm a member of another forum that has just nearly been destroyed by growing to an unmanageable size and then attracting commercial interest from a dim wit who thought that the collective sharing of ideas and knowledge on that forum was something he could market and profit from.  I would suggest that if this forum is a little hard to find and hence only attracts those who take the time to seek it out, or who hear of it from Watercraft or word of mouth then that is actually a very good thing.

[LASER41420]

Hi,

I agree, if you come across our name in Watercraft or by any other route the a quick search for UKHBBR in google takes you straight to the website.

Simples

Steve

--- On Wed, 17/8/11, Jeremy [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Jeremy [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: No Free Lunch
To: "LASER41420" <[hidden email]>
Date: Wednesday, 17 August, 2011, 7:58

GregHBBR wrote:

Exactly! There's confusion about the two issues:

1. You shouldn't need to tell someone to search for the forum because the URL is so obscure no one can remember it.

2. To rise high in search results both the title of the page and the URL need to contain the terms for which the search is made.

Issue #1 Concerns telling people.
Issue #2 Concerns searching for what we offer

I suggest we should seek to rectify both issues!

Why?

We're not selling anything, so we have no need of "enlarging our customer base" by telling more people
Why do we need to attract more like minded souls?  Do we actually need vast numbers of people here?

I'm a member of another forum that has just nearly been destroyed by growing to an unmanageable size and then attracting commercial interest from a dim wit who thought that the collective sharing of ideas and knowledge on that forum was something he could market and profit from.  I would suggest that if this forum is a little hard to find and hence only attracts those who take the time to seek it out, or who hear of it from Watercraft or word of mouth then that is actually a very good thing.

---

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[Frogsider]

I have not been a member of this forum for long, so on this topic I'm inclined rather to listen to established members than to post my own opinion.  

On top of that, I can't (at the moment, anyway) get to any rallies, and I'm not UK based, and since this is a forum for people who go on UK rallies with their home built boats, perhaps I shouldn't be here at all.  

BUT,

If I hadn't found this forum I would never have known about building an ultra-lightweight boat with metal tube and stretched fabric, or how to temporarily clamp clinker planks (or a guitar) with rope, or heard about the properties and sustainability of Finnish Birch ply, or dozens of other fascinating and useful things that one day I might apply in practice.  Perhaps also one day I might be able to contribute some piece of wisdom or my own experience that other forum members might find novel and useful.

My point, I suppose, is that if this forum does not attract anyone new, none of the knowledge and wisdom of its members will reach anyone outside of the existing small group, and also that there may be useful things that existing members don't know that they'll only find out about if new people, with new ideas, join the forum.  

Many internet forums seem eventually to become very incestuous.  It's not a good thing.   Making it easier for new people to find this forum is, in my opinion, desirable and therefore an objective to be considered.  It can surely be done without turning it into a drum-beating recruitment campaign.  

So, Jeremy, although I find the laid-back, deliberately un-organised, non-evangelistic nature of this association very attractive, I do, most respectfully and politely, disagree with you.  




   

[David Bewick]

It seems to me that the website and the forum should be readily accessible to new people and this means that they should be findable by people using predictable search terms like "home boatbuilding" and the search engines that most people use (i.e. Google).  I am pretty sure, though, that most people having found a website they like and intend to re-visit will set it up as a favourite.  In neither of these scenarios is the exact nature of the URL of any relevance, whatsoever.

To go back to the content rather than the technology for a moment, I still think our interests are best served by having a static website that is our "shop window" onto the world (even though we don't sell anything) and the repository of acquired wisdom, supported by a forum where the cognoscenti can have a good old natter about things like this.  For me, the ideal solution would be to have a forum embedded in a website, but if they are separate it is not a big deal.  I do think we should probably shut down any experimental websites, forums and blogs that are not currently being actively used, though.

My head hurts, now, so I going out to the workshop to scarf up a couple of sheets of ply.

David.

[Tomsk]

Living in West Yorkshire I often feel like an outsider / foreigner to the group, especially where rallies are concerned, however I rather like the more esoteric nature of the forum.

We are here. If you want to make just that little extra effort to find us then the results are rewarding.

The breadth of topics covered often astounds me yet never strays far from my comfort zone.

There are rarely too many posts that I feel over whelmed yet I don't feel lost if I see nothing for a few days or more.

I feel that this current situation would see a natural level of growth befitting ukhbbr (with international support!).

Tom

On Aug 17, 2011 9:00 AM, "Frogsider [via UK HBBR Forum]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I have not been a member of this forum for long, so on this topic I'm
> inclined rather to listen to established members than to post my own
> opinion.
>
> On top of that, I can't (at the moment, anyway) get to any rallies, and I'm
> not UK based, and since this is a forum for people who go on UK rallies with
> their home built boats, perhaps I shouldn't be here at all.
>
> BUT,
>
> If I hadn't found this forum I would never have known about building an
> ultra-lightweight boat with metal tube and stretched fabric, or how to
> temporarily clamp clinker planks (or a guitar) with rope, or heard about the
> properties and sustainability of Finnish Birch ply, or dozens of other
> fascinating and useful things that one day I might apply in practice.
> Perhaps also one day I might be able to contribute some piece of wisdom or
> my own experience that other forum members might find novel and useful.
>
> My point, I suppose, is that if this forum does not attract anyone new, none
> of the knowledge and wisdom of its members will reach anyone outside of the
> existing small group, and also that there may be useful things that existing
> members don't know that they'll only find out about if new people, with new
> ideas, join the forum.
>
> Many internet forums seem eventually to become very incestuous. It's not a
> good thing. Making it easier for new people to find this forum is, in my
> opinion, desirable and therefore an objective to be considered. It can
> surely be done without turning it into a drum-beating recruitment campaign.
>
> So, Jeremy, although I find the laid-back, deliberately un-organised,
> non-evangelistic nature of this association very attractive, I do, most
> respectfully and politely, disagree with you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
> http://uk-hbbr-forum.967333.n3.nabble.com/No-Free-Lunch-tp3250450p3260936.html
>
> To unsubscribe from UK HBBR Forum, visit

[Forthsailoar]

I'm a lurker, and enjoy the posts, only chipping in occasionally. I find HBBR a generally polite and well mannered place, and while some folk are the main posters, they are rarely if ever dogmatic, overbearing or needlessly provocative as in some other places. 

According to the wordpress HBBR site:

The aim is to organise several meetings around the country where home boat builders can get together to have a chat, see each others boats, sail in other boats, and talk about the trials, tribulations and rewards of building your own boat.

That implies to me that HBBR should be open to new people and not become a small group of longtime members. And that implies, to me at least, that our web presence should be clear and accessible. To my mind, various sites without a common URL, doesn't inspire confidence in a newcomer. 

Of course, what really matters is the quality of conversation once you're inside, but I think it would be no bad thing to make the newcomer feel confident by following some simple naming conventions, eg

www.homeboatregatta.org.uk > simple single homepage, with link to

forum.homeboatregatta.org.uk > nabble forum (this could just be a redirect to the longer nabble URL.)

Interestingly, one thing in the aim above that is quite different from the majority of small boat lists/forums is that the R in HBBR - organising the regattas (or rallies). New members in other parts of the country might lead to more such events. The word Regatta in the URL would be a nice touch to reinforce this aim. 

Back to lurking!

Osbert

[Anders]

quote forthsailor:
"I find HBBR a generally polite and well mannered place, and while some folk are the main posters, they are rarely if ever dogmatic, overbearing or needlessly provocative as in some other places."

Yes, thats why I´m here and also in a yahoo group. And also why I´m very seldom on a big wooden boat forum. I like it this way. In a few month I´ve learned a lot more here than on that big forum during years.
I have a clear feeling that we are growing slowly and I think that must be good enough. I would realy find it to be sad to see this place turn into a big forum with to many stupid discussions and repetitions. I´ve been a very active member of the biggest flamenco guitar forum on the web for 7 years... I´m there partly ( a lot ) because its good for my business... But, oh my the amount of times we´ve been closed down because of violent hot headed discussions. The amount of repetitive questions that does that its hard work just to find the interesting messages.... Please.... I dont want that.
This forum still has some of that yahoo group feeling. Its a lot better now, but lets take it easy. I dont mind changing URL. Its just a matter of bookmarking another URL but I dont find it to be important either.
This forums main object is to organize rallies, to meet up and sail. It should continue to be the main object because thats something the other forums dont have.

[Port-Na-Storm]

Hi folks,
I'm just back from the DCA camping week at Cobnor in Chichester Harbour. There was an excellent turn out and as usual quite a few HBBR folk were there. A great week of Sailing, Camping and talking about boats in great company which is what HBBR is all about.
Since we moved over to nabble we seem to have attracted quite a few new members which is great, unfortunately we lost one or two long term members too which is a pity. The move from Yahoo was a bit traumatic for some and I wouldn't want to do anything which would upset things here now that things have settled down.
As owner of the yahoo group I could delete it in order to remove one of the "dead" sites, but that would mean losing the extensive photo library so I would be reluctant to do that.  

The Wordpress site is supposed to be our shop window on the world, but we're not very good at keeping it refreshed with new content. Maybe once the season is over those with authoring privileges will give it a dust off.  

And finally a word on Brand Recognition and Corporate Identity.

Coca-Cola has a huge Brand Identity, they wouldn't change their URL to fizzy-drinks.com

I worked for Ordnance Survey which has something like a 75% Brand Recognition in the UK despite only 5% of the population ever having bought a map. This is truly huge, helped enormously by the fact that Ordnance Survey is the only brand mentioned by name in the National Curriculum. The current CEO has been trying to drop the full moniker in favour of the more high-tech OS for years, but the people and staff persist in using the full title, because they like it.

The point is, lets try to spread the word about UK-HBBR,  build the brand, don't dilute it.

Graham