Renovating a Mirror

[Jeremy]

John P wrote

If I were to make a list of most useful and cost effective electric boat building tools I think it would include the following:

Battery drill/driver
Jigsaw
Angle grinder
Multi-tool detail sander/saw (assuming that is as good as people say it is)
Random orbital sander
Electric plane
Router and router table (table can also be normal workbench)
Hand held circular saw (A small handy one, not a big clumsey one)

What do others think?  I have not included big pieces of equipment such as bandsaws, table saws and planer/thicknessers since although these tools may well be useful they are much more space consuming and arguably less cost effective than the above. Also, the list is based on typical boat building/boat repair jobs, if you want to do metal work then you need a whole different range of tools and generally much more bulky and expensive tools at that.

John

Just to be different I think my power tool list, in order of preference, would be:

Lathe
Milling machine
Pillar drill
Bandsaw/power hacksaw combination
Mitre cut-off saw (with metal blade)
Small high speed (4500rpm) Makita drill
Dremel
Linisher
Detail sander/multitool

Jeremy

[Ratcatcherjohn]

Paul    "Back in the day......." following an article in Watercraft, I purchased a De Walt 26480 Sander, the small `handy` one with a  64mm x 356 mm belt  (you do the maths).  I would agree with the comments re: material removal and speed thereof.  Suffice it to say, TBA started off as 16Ft ship with a cabin!  
 On a more serious note the "ON/OFF" switch does not default to "OFF".  When the trip kicks out (and I have three in the feed to the shed) and if you forget to manually return to "OFF" before re-setting the trip the little sander goes off along the bench on its own, picking up random cloths and wipers until it burns out  the drive belt. A Replacement belt is half the price of a cheap sander and requires three tyre leavers to get on!.  Belts do seem to be a tad expensive as they all appear to be de Walt branded.  Although I generally go for the Agricultural approach, see below, I would be a bit wary of a 6 inch belt.
 
My choice of power tools
 
Husquvana Chain Saw (Petrol) 24inch bar---For medium work.
 
Bosch Chain Saw (Electric) 12 inch bar --- For the more detailed work.
 
Canadian Gas Axe
 
Don`t find a use for much else. 
 
John
 
(For those who don`t know, HM Inspector of Health & Safety [Retired]   [Some say ------------"Sacked !"] ).
 
 
 
 

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Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 05:56:20 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Renovating a Mirror

John P wrote:

If I were to make a list of most useful and cost effective electric boat building tools I think it would include the following:

Battery drill/driver
Jigsaw
Angle grinder
Multi-tool detail sander/saw (assuming that is as good as people say it is)
Random orbital sander
Electric plane
Router and router table (table can also be normal workbench)
Hand held circular saw (A small handy one, not a big clumsey one)

What do others think?  I have not included big pieces of equipment such as bandsaws, table saws and planer/thicknessers since although these tools may well be useful they are much more space consuming and arguably less cost effective than the above. Also, the list is based on typical boat building/boat repair jobs, if you want to do metal work then you need a whole different range of tools and generally much more bulky and expensive tools at that.

John

Just to be different I think my power tool list, in order of preference, would be:

Lathe
Milling machine
Pillar drill
Bandsaw/power hacksaw combination
Mitre cut-off saw (with metal blade)
Small high speed (4500rpm) Makita drill
Dremel
Linisher
Detail sander/multitool

Jeremy

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[John P]

Ratcatcherjohn wrote

My choice of power tools
 
Husquvana Chain Saw (Petrol) 24inch bar---For medium work.
Bosch Chain Saw (Electric) 12 inch bar --- For the more detailed work.
Canadian Gas Axe
 
Don`t find a use for much else.
 
John
 

 
Shipbreaker then?  Or maybe dugout canoe builder?
 ----------------

Jeremy wrote:

John Just to be different I think my power tool list, in order of preference, would be:

Lathe
Milling machine
Pillar drill
Bandsaw/power hacksaw combination
Mitre cut-off saw (with metal blade)
Small high speed (4500rpm) Makita drill
Dremel
Linisher
Detail sander/multitool

Jeremy

Well, I was thinking only of tools that would be useful for boatbuilding with epoxy and plywood, hence jigsaw is high on my list, whereas your tool selection seems to be more for metalwork.  I do have metal working tools myself, although I have not done a lot of metalwork recently, come to think of it have not done any boatbuilding either, although that could change now that I should have a lot more spare time.  For metal work, I also have a lathe and milling machine and I find that I use the milling machine far more than the lathe, however from time to time you need to turn a shaft or the like then you cant do without the lathe. So I would agree that both these machine tools are basic requirements for metalwork, although they do take up far more space than all my woodworking tools put together.   If you have a milling machine with a lever operated quill then you dont really need a pillar drill. If you dont have a milling machine then I would agree that a simple pillar drill would be useful even if you only work with wood. I used to have a power bandsaw for cutting off pieces of bar stock to turn on my lathe, but I gave it away since I needed the space. Since then I have had to cut off bar stock by hand (good for fitness) or with angle grinder, I dont often need to cut bar more than about 40mm.  Maybe your cutoff saw would do this more efficiently and take up less space than my bandsaw did, but I dont see a need for both. Why the 4500rpm drill - just curious - amateur dentistry or something?





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[Port-Na-Storm]

On my desert island, when I open my tool box I want to find.

Axe
Pull Saw
Block Plane
Brace & Bits.
Tea bags
Mug
Flint

[Jeremy]

John P wrote

Jeremy

Well, I was thinking only of tools that would be useful for boatbuilding with epoxy and plywood, hence jigsaw is high on my list, whereas your tool selection seems to be more for metalwork.  I do have metal working tools myself, although I have not done a lot of metalwork recently, come to think of it have not done any boatbuilding either, although that could change now that I should have a lot more spare time.  For metal work, I also have a lathe and milling machine and I find that I use the milling machine far more than the lathe, however from time to time you need to turn a shaft or the like then you cant do without the lathe. So I would agree that both these machine tools are basic requirements for metalwork, although they do take up far more space than all my woodworking tools put together.   If you have a milling machine with a lever operated quill then you dont really need a pillar drill. If you dont have a milling machine then I would agree that a simple pillar drill would be useful even if you only work with wood. I used to have a power bandsaw for cutting off pieces of bar stock to turn on my lathe, but I gave it away since I needed the space. Since then I have had to cut off bar stock by hand (good for fitness) or with angle grinder, I dont often need to cut bar more than about 40mm.  Maybe your cutoff saw would do this more efficiently and take up less space than my bandsaw did, but I dont see a need for both. Why the 4500rpm drill - just curious - amateur dentistry or something?

The only boat I've designed and built myself (Aero) is made primarily from metal, hence the slightly odd tool collection!  

I bought the big bandsaw/power hacksaw before I bought the cut-off saw and now find I rarely use it, to be honest, and it does take up a lot of room (although I've mounted mine on casters so I can shift it out of the way).  The 10" cut-off saw happily slices through 3" diameter aluminium alloy bar in a fraction of the time that the bandsaw takes and takes up less room, too.  Neither milling machine has a lever operated quill, and I acquired the big floor standing pillar drill before I acquired either of the milling machines.  The main advantage the pillar drill has is power and capacity, I can get far bigger things underneath it than I can on either of the milling machines.  The high speed drill is a real boon when drilling small diameter holes in light alloy for rivets.  Aero is riveted together with stainless blind rivets and the little Makita makes drilling all those holes cleanly a very quick job.

Jeremy

[Chris Waite]

On the subject of repairing, let me tell you a tale of two Mirrors

Once upon a time a long time ago in the West, well Bognor actually, there was a very small garden with two Mirror dinghies in it; one red one and one blue one.  One day an unscrupulously deciduous tree-surgeon came into the garden and lopped some trees, letting the branches fall where they might and low and behold one branch fell on the blue boat crunching a little crunch on the chine of the starboard quarter and a little while afterwards, or maybe before, another branch fell on the red boat, crunching a little crunch in the floor next to the starboard side of the plate case.



Well Hell
 
Now the people of the house were duly miffed, but also very busy and the two dinghies sat there for some time not getting any younger and eventually the Lady of the house declared, “One of them has to go and it’s not going to be me!”  So the Master of the house decided that the blue Mirror, being the older and more difficult to repair, would be the one and he duly disposed of it, but that is another story.  

Time passed and a few months later the Master of the house realizing there was more to life than repairing old dinghies, contacted the Chairman of a local Boat Club, Arundel to be precise, asking if he knew of anyone who might buy the red Mirror for perhaps around £150.

So the question is do any of you have room for a wounded Mirror, and rather over a hundred odd smackers loafing around looking for something watery to do?


If so, let me know and I'll put you in touch

CW

[Port-Na-Storm]

Now then Cee Dubbs.

I personally have only one suggestion for a Mirror with a hole, and it requires petrol and a box of Swan Vestas. However, before a well known Administrator and Mirror Rig convert, chips in, please tell us truly what does it come with in terms of rig?  Is there a pointy stick and some flappy cloth which could be used to propel another vessel?

And please tell us the other story of the Blue Boat!

Graham  

[Chris Waite]

I am assured it comes with all the kit including board, rudder and full rig with "fitted spinnaker chute"....
that's how the gentleman describes it.

The blue one?  Knowing me as well as you do, what do you think happened to it?

CW

[Ratcatcherjohn]

`Morning Graham & CD
 
Apologies for not understanding the procedure for loosing the bits below.
 
Before anyone parts with £100 (or a bit less) a quick perusal of that well known auction site (where my wife thinks I live) may be productive.  A couple of fully equipped boats with holes only in the approved places are starting at about £20.
 
John
 
  

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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 03:48:41 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Renovating a Mirror

I am assured it comes with all the kit including board, rudder and full rig with "fitted spinnaker chute"....
that's how the gentleman describes it.

The blue one?  Knowing me as well as you do, what do you think happened to it?

CW

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[sae140]

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[Port-Na-Storm]

Ah the angle grinder, tool of choice for so many little jobs around the boat. I also admire your impressive collection of weights.
I think your blog should give Admin Paul some food for thought.  It'll be good to see the boat sailing again.
cheers
Graham

[sae140]

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[GregHBBR]

sae140 wrote

it's grp, so not really appropriate for this forum.

What rot! There's no rule to stop you talking GRP here, any more than we'll stop you talking of a build with an aluminium tubing or bamboo frame and wrapped in oiled goat skin or polytarp sheeting to form the hull.

In fact, it doesn't have to be a build from scratch. If you want to discuss how to refit a cabin of a production boat, I'm sure no one would object. The techniques used would be equally helpful to those working on other builds.

Mind you, at some point we'd hope to see you at a rally, after all it is rallies that are the prime focus of this group - but even that's not essential, if you can claim to have inspired someone to complete a boat that is seen at a rally.

[Ratcatcherjohn]

Good Morning Colin 
 I think a recent post indicated that we are a fairly all inclusive non organisation with several renovated GRP projects.   I, for one, will declare my interest in a commercial fishing boat renovation. 
Renovating Mirrors can be well remunerative, I bought one for £40 patched it up in a much less sophisticated manner than you achieved, sold it to a farmer for £70, then sold the trailer to "Paul the Illustrious" for a nice consideration. Mast, spars, two sets of sails rudder and dagger board are in the shed roof awaiting sensible offers.
You will see why the trailer made of scaffold poles will be of great interest to myself and possibly some of the other equally financially challenged non members.
 
Off topic I know,  but I have had to take TBA off her trailer and wrap her up for the winter so, unfortunately,  I will not be arriving at the Horse & Jockey by water.
 
BTW  Herself retired last Friday so I have much `domestic renovation` to undertake before I even start to  gain "Brownie Points"  for next season.
 
John
 

 

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Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 03:06:53 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: Renovating a Mirror

Hi - as you can see from the photos and chat, the lion's share of the work related to rot below the cockpit floor battens, due to dirt and water being trapped there. Although I could simply have 'double-skinned' the cockpit floor, I decided upon an intermediate layer of coarse glass matt which was left over from a yacht hull repair as 'belt and braces'. I can now - at 18 stones (really must start that diet soon) - quite happily stand up in the cockpit without any fear of falling through.

Weights - yes, I found the use of strategically-placed weights invaluable during the repairs - even dug out my old diving weight-belt ...

All-in-all, I don't think torching a Mirror because of a few patches of rot is justified. Ok - so my little Mirror still isn't worth any serious money - but that's not why I repaired it. Seems to me you can spend a couple of hundred quid on a Mirror, and still end up with a few unwelcomed surprises.

Current project is the complete renovation and modification of a 4.5 metre commercial fishing boat, with a trailer made mainly from scaffold pole - but it's grp, so not really appropriate for this forum.

http://sae140.99k.org/bodge.htm may be of interest to anyone who makes their own stuff. Last use of the hydraulic 'press' was to make some dished s/s washers for my collection of Seagulls.
 
'best, Colin

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[sae140]

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[GregHBBR]

sae140 wrote

So tell me more about these rallies (or point me to a link to save the typing) - where and when (generally speaking) do they take place ?

See: UK-HBBR Meetings

What's the preference - to upload photos here, or for me to knock up a QD (Quick 'n' Dirty) webpage and link to it ? (In a new thread, of course)

Start a new topic (I'll use forum rather than mail list jargon) in either the Builds in Progress or Gallery area - whichever seems most appropriate.

Take a look at the advice in the FAQ: Inserting Images in the Forum as there are a few tricks worth knowing (a web proficient guy should find them pretty standard stuff, but it's worth adding here in case others are reading it).