Surf 8', a new Selway Fisher sail-and-oar mini-cruiser

[Chris Waite]

The thing is Grum

It's no good simply lowering the snotter, you have to drop the whole sail by the same(ish) amount, (awkward if it's laced to the mast and most are - mast hoops are easier) and then tie in the reef.  Thames barges reefed upward of course - mostly to clear the haystacks they were taking to London; they had a sufficient selection of sails to provide loads of combinations:

 

This one has her main and foresail brailed up entirely and just her topsail set, though the bow wave makes me think her 'iron topsail' is also in use.

Of course there is the possibility of scandalizing the sail. If loose footed, that frequently used to entail tricing up the tack; dropping the peak also reduces the power - normally this applies to a gaff.  Further to that, many working boats were fitted with brails to furl the sail up toward the throat and mast.  there is also a technique called a 'Spanish reef', where the peak is lowered all the way down until it can be tied to somewhere around the gooseneck:

      

However, these techniques were normally used on heavy working boats, not baby dinghies.  In the case of such light hulls and equipment, a sprit sail tends to billow and flog unnervingly at the precise moment when you really, really wish it wouldn't.

Which is why for anything other than out-and-out racing, I would have a balance lug for any mainsail up to 100 square feet, providing the greatest simplicity and ease of use.  Much larger and it can start to get difficult to control.

Go on, ask me why a balance lug; or maybe

You have more sense

C-Dog  

[mike160304]

OK, why a balance lug . ..

On my last own-build, I have just re-rigged the standing lug as a balance lug and I like the reduced twist and it all looks good. This sail is tiny, only 21 sq ft.

Favourite for Surf 8 at the moment is a balance lug, well, kinda - as it is a 9' x 6' polytarp, as is, it is more like a balance squaresail, 50 sq ft. If I don't like it I can get a bigger tarp and cut it more like a typical balance lug.

Could you advise on a simple, ultralight way to reef this (it is so simple I guess I could just carry a spare smaller sail), or if you have written all about that before, could you provide a link please?

Regards,
Mike

[mike160304]

NEW PICTURE - with Selway Fisher's permission, I have uploaded an oblique lines drawing of Surf 8'. Please see it here:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=CCB21CAC4FBA9E11!219&authkey=!AHiLiKGASAnO4ks&ithint=folder%2cjpg
 
My contract with Selway Fisher was that they would supply me with drawings for the hull shape only, so I have all the drawings I need to build the hull, with fitting-out left to my own devices. Paul Fisher is currently working on a larger project, so Surf 8 will not be generally released on the Selway Fisher website for some time yet. However, drawings to build the hull only are available now, as far as I know.

I hope to post pictures of the build as I go along.

Regards,
Mike

[mike160304]

PS re "NEW PICTURE": Just a few random thoughts:

1.  The sail shown, 35 sq ft spritsail, is not my idea, I am more likely to have a 50 sq ft polytarp or something else a bit off-piste. I am hoping that the hull will encourage adventurous experimentation with various sail rigs.

2.  The boat is designed as a low cost fun sailer-rower for adults, not just for children, and not just as a yacht tender, though she will do that fine too. Hence the spacious hull, firm bilges, flat run, powerful bow and stern and unusual 19.5" midships hull depth - enabling a lifting centreboard (only if desired of course), a more comfortable sitting height and, as you sit in her rather than on her, a nice feeling of [relative] security.

3.  The hull can be built heavy or ultralight, to taste. Personally I hope to keep the bare hull weight down to around 50 lb which, with the moderate 4' beam, will make her easy to cartop. I hope to use a hollow rudder, a hollow daggerboard or leeboard (all made of thin plywood) and a bamboo [unstayed] mast, spars and oar shafts. All these things will seriously reduce weight, and where bamboo is used, the amount of work involved. Paul Fisher's usual ply-and-batten seats/thwarts also help to reduce weight.

4.  I am thinking of having just the one centre frame and no built-in buoyancy tanks, as buoyancy bags are much lighter.

5.  Whilst I admire perfectionist boatbuilding, and have suffered from this obsession in the past, I am now more inspired by working boats like the coracle and curragh with their emphasis on function, not cosmetics. So for me, the Surf 8 is a nicely shaped block of air , with a minimum weight of Okoume plywood round it to keep the water out, but with 7 planks and the Paul Fisher touch, retaining a cute traditional look.

Regards,
Mike

[momist]

Mike,
Thanks so much for putting up that line view of the Surf 8'.  She looks very, very similar to the Y-Emma dinghy I've been sailing for nearly the last 30 years.  The Y-Emma was designed by John Westell, and the design published in Yachting Monthly in September 1982 as their new "Sailing Tender", and then featured later in Practical Boat Owner, where I picked up the inspiration to build one.  At the time, I was sailing a Westerly 22' cruiser and using an old leaky Avon inflatable which would not row for fun.  I built my Y-Emma in the winter of 1984.

The seven plank design does give a beautifully "rounded" hull that makes the boat look so much more than it is, and pretty too.  I share your desire for light construction and simplicity.  The Y-Emma has (as designed) a 41 sq foot balance lug, on solid Douglas Fir spars, and the mast is simply stepped into a square hole in the bows buoyancy tank.  Something you may also consider, is that the dagger board case projects aft sufficiently to provide a sit-astride seat for rowing, and ends in a vertical board that is just the right distance from the transom such that: when the boat is stood vertically on the transom, I can pick it up by putting my shoulder under the end of the dagger board case and standing erect to lift and carry the boat single handed.  Not too far  -  and not in high winds.  I've not dropped it too hard yet!  I've carried it a maximum of about 400 yards, but I'm now getting too old for such capers and have a set of wheels to clip on underneath these days.  I can still carry it over the rough stuff though, to reach the water.  Amidships, the hull is about 400mm deep (nearly 16"), so not as capacious as the Surf 8'.  

I did weigh my boat some time (15 - 20 years?) ago, but I'm afraid I now can't remember what the result was.  I roof-rack the boat regularly, currently on my Renault Scenic, as I also tow a caravan.  I need slightly longer than normal crosswise roof bars, and I have a home-made temporary rear roller arrangement that simply hooks under the rear bar, so I can on/offload the dinghy single handed.  Yes, I can open the tailgate with the boat on the roof  :-)

You have now got me thinking of the advantages of bamboo spars, I may give that a try seeing how low the price is.   My mast is 2.76m (9' 1").   I imagine carriage might put the cost up by a factor of ten though!   Good luck with your build and I hope she sails at least as well as mine does!

Ian

[mike160304]

Thanks Ian,

You've had great mileage out of the Y-Emma! My Y was the YW 8' Pram in the 60s. I shall read your ideas a couple of times more - very interesting.

I did check on Carriage for the bamboo and I think it was quite reasonable, and it should be possible to talk out the details of what you want on the phone. So far my personal experience of bamboo has been limited to smaller "garden centre" poles on a smaller boat, but obviously the Chinese famously use it for multi-storey scaffolding, and its stiffness/weight ratio is amazing. I cannot praise it highly enough. If you pick up a traditional English spar after using bamboo, you think "Who on earth would want all this weight, up there in a spar?"

I would be very interested to see your Y-Emma layout, if possible, I don't know whether you might be able to post it here? Or if not, maybe email it to me (not sure how that works yet)?

Regards,
Mike

[BrianP]

This article about using bamboo for spars might be helpfull, just slide a page left to see next page.

http://issuu.com/skinnyhull/docs/volume1-number1

[mike160304]

PPS re NEW PICTURE:

Re Point 1, "adventurous experimentation with various sail rigs" - a retracting bamboo bowsprit and a gennaker might liven up the party . . .  

Re Point 2, "a low cost fun sailer-rower for adults, not just for children", the raw materials cost of a good home-built ultralight Surf 8 including everything will be somewhere around £150-£600 (it's a bit like the question "How long is a piece of string") whereas an Optimist is both difficult to home-build within the stringent rules and rather expensive to buy (again, "How long is a piece of string?").

OK, comparing chalk with cheese, but . . .

Regards,
Mike

[mike160304]

Thanks very much Brian, I have bookmarked that.

Regards,
Mike

[Chris Waite]

Tell you what, Mike

I think you already have most of the reasons -

1.  Unstayed is three less pieces of string; well wire then.

2.  A balance lug, or square-sail as you have intimated, twists (and billows) less, in fact barely at all as it's like a Roman orator holding out a scroll to proclaim from.  This also means that you don't need a kicking strap.

3.  That leaves you with two essential lines, a halyard and a sheet, plus a strop to hold the boom down and to the mast.  A lot of the Solent scows have multiple tackles here, but unless you are racing this to me, is superfluous in practice.

4.  In fact with such a small dinghy you could get away without even a halyard and merely clipping the yard to the un-stepped masthead while ashore, or sitting aboard, then stepping the whole rig with the sail set....

Plop!

Here it comes again -

"You have achieved perfection in design, not when there is nothing more you can add, but when there is nothing more you can take away"  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Reefing - (this will probably bring the halyard back in) - I have one deep reef only, with a strop though the luff cringle having a toggle on each end and a forward facing hook under the boom at the tack.  Put one toggle into the hook and wind the strop round the loose folds of luff, prior to inserting it into the hook as well.  The picture shows a complete loop, but it was awkward to get all the luff stuffed into, so the double toggle is easier to use -

 

For me, the leach cringle can either be tied in - stopper knot through the cringle, a half hitch to bundle the sail, thence to a cleat at the clew end of the boom.  Or a permanently mounted reef pennant, loosely bowlined round the boom to lie toggled through the cringle, long enough to fully set the sail.  In use it can be led round another hook - aft facing, to a cleat midway where it is easy to get at -

  

 

This also shows a bungee simply looped through two eyes of the reef points so that it lies horizontally, both sides.  One side has a hook on it and just bundle up the sail, grab the hook under the boom and clip it to the bungee on the other side.  It's plenty to keep the loose belly of the sail out of your hair.

Fifty Square on an eight footer?  Something I was wondering about, but now I'll be able to sit on the shore and watch while you carry the can.

Bring on the Bamboo

Chris  

[momist]

Thanks from me too Brian,  I've now signed up for that and hope to find some other things of interest as well.  If only there were enough time . . .

Ian

[mike160304]

3rd PICTURE ADDED:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=CCB21CAC4FBA9E11!219&authkey=!AHiLiKGASAnO4ks&ithint=folder%2cjpg

Mike

[mike160304]

Thanks very much Chris. As you said, I view the Balance Lug/Squaresail exactly as you do. I prefer to have a halyard, as my track record shows that I am safer sitting down.

Re reefing, I have copied all that and the pics, and have kept it for future reference, I am not ready to start installing reefing yet by a long way. Thanks very much.

"You have achieved perfection in design, not when there is nothing more you can add, but when there is nothing more you can take away"  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Brilliant!!!!!! Less is more. Elegant simplicity.

Regards,
Mike

[mike160304]

Fifty Square on an eight footer?  Something I was wondering about, but now I'll be able to sit on the shore and watch while you carry the can.

Come with me to Eccentricland. I meant a 50 sq ft unmodifed polytarp, 9'x 6', 90 gsm, set up as a balance squaresail. Too awful to risk mentioning it to a yottie. Not the thing at all, embarrassing. Cheap, so must be rubbish.

Any sailmaker will tell you that it is an awful waste of time . . . obviously . . .

I have only sailed with a 6' x 4', 21 sq ft one on a tiny boat. But I do believe:

1. The long straight luff, longer than any lugsail luff, unhindered by mast or yard, provides good clean power and acceleration.

2. The sail is flat, so when powered, it has less drag and hence less heeling force than a yottie sail. I can feel the difference, I do not have to jump to windward so much.

3. The sail is flat, so when depowered, it just sits there. It does not flog about like a yottie sail. It drags the boat about less.

4. If it provides less lift than a yottie sail for a given shape and area, it may be offsetting that disadvantage with its reduced drag.

5. If points 2 and 3 are right, I can carry a polytarp bigger than a yottie sail for more power but with less drag and heeling force.

6. What I do know is, it feels fast, it feels safer and I love the lack of noisy and mischievous flogging.

So we'll see how it goes. Surf 8 is a tart, you can try anything you like. She's anybody's.

Bring on the Bamboo 

I have, and I shall.

Regards,
Mike

Regards,
Mike

[momist]

OK Mike, I've managed to find some photos that may show you what I was trying to describe.  Please ignore the ugly old geezer in the photos:

I can lift the boat on my own, and this shows the internal layout.  Doesn't it look tall?  I promise you it is only 7 foot 11 inches.  Makes me look small then, maybe I'm shrinking in my old age.




And here is how it goes on the roof, single handed.



Then the roller gear is removed.





In the first photo, the painter has been stuffed into the hole that the self supporting mast steps into, and you can see the extent of the buoyancy chambers which include the dagger board slot.  The rear thwart is a piece of 6mm ply across two hardwood battens which form part of the structure.  The twin bilge keels are parallel and made of iroko, and my wheels slip into the two handholds in them.  I'm sorry, I can't find a good picture of the wheels just now, I'll keep looking.

I'm chuffed to find someone else going for a boat this handy!

Best of luck,
Ian

[mike160304]

PS re "You have achieved perfection in design, not when there is nothing more you can add, but when there is nothing more you can take away"  Antoine de Saint-Exupery"

Brilliant!!!!!! Less is more. Elegant simplicity.

Or
Engineering, not money.
Ingenuity, not retail therapy.
Replace a metal fitting with a hole (they are lighter and more cost-effective).
Velcro not knots.

My sailing coracle has already gone through this ethnic - whoops - technical cleansing.

Don't ask, I'll be writing about it.

Regards,
Mike

[mike160304]

Re  "So we'll see how it goes. Surf 8 is a tart, you can try anything you like. She's anybody's."

And I should have added, she will not get easily upset.

Mike

[Chris Waite]

This 'Technical Cleansing' Mike

That is the same as 'Ethnic Cleansing' then

But without any human getting injured during the production?

CW

[Chris Waite]

If you must know

It's the lizardly Kumala talking....

Chenin Blanc/Chardonnay/Semillion

Presently only a fiver at Tesco's

Night night

CW

[mike160304]

Thanks Ian, everything looks very tidy, and I can see the internal layout of Y-Emma.

I have long roof rails on my Astra Estate, on which I fit 2 Thule crossbars. The rear one is very close to the rear end of the roof, which makes things easier. The Thule bars are covered with those thick slit tubes of pipe insulation foam and a lightweight like Surf 8 will slide over them easily.
The photos are of an old GRP 8-footer that I bought in 2012 for a holiday in N Norfolk, I called her Pippa. I thought she was going to weigh about 120 lb but it turned out that she weighed 173 lb, so it took 4 of us to get her on and off the roof bars. So I re-sold her again straight after the holiday.

But what I liked a lot was her spaciousness - she taught me that an 8-footer can have a nice spacious feeling, and this was a top priority for the design of Surf 8. But without the weight penalty of course.

Yesterday I started marking out my plywood.

Regards,
Mike