West Mersea Duck Punts - new two sheet S+T version

[BrianP]

We have been having some fun and making good progress on making a two sheet version of the West Mersea Duck Punts. Thought you might like to see what we have been up to.

Firstly, for anyone who has not seen the videos, the Duck Punts are about the coolest boats on the planet. The web site is called "Laid back Sailing". http://www.duckpunt.org.uk/





Videos here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMwzdD96GSA&feature=player_embedded

Well, the plans are very hard to get hold of, but I managed a while back. Then a request was posted by Dylan Winter, of KTL fame, could anybody help with a set of plans. The Duck Punters just couldn't supply. I let him know I had a set and he obtained permission for me to copy and send him them. In fact they also conformed they were happy for us to post the plans on-line, make them freely available and were also happy for us to work on a simplified S+T construction.

I scanned the plans and sent them to Dylan, who put them up on his website. They are also on Google Docs if anyone wants to download a set.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4Bi31ixDF93YTc2NjUyZWItYzhhNS00MjEwLTljODMtMTE0MWExMjNiM2M5&hl=en_US

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4Bi31ixDF93YWY5Mzc5ZTgtMGNmOS00ZWZiLTgzMmMtNDg0Mjg1NDk1Mjlm&hl=en_US
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4Bi31ixDF93YTE0YzM1ZjctOTNlMy00OWMzLWIxODYtMmQ2YTU2ZTU1MWUz&hl=en_US

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4Bi31ixDF93MmQyY2FmNTgtNmIyOC00NjM4LTg3NGYtOTc1M2JlZDE2N2Zi&hl=en_US

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4Bi31ixDF93NTM0YjdhOTgtODJmZS00YzIzLWEzYWUtNTZhMmQwYzcwNTlh&hl=en_US

Dylan wants to build a light weight car top version in 6mm. So I contacted FLO-MO to see if he would like to have a go at conversion to simple S+T. He replied he would love to and we have had a wonderful result. The panels are very simple and fit onto just two sheets. Very "Chris Waite" style of layout.

Side panels

 

Bottom



Paper model



FLO-MO is making a birch ply model this week to refine the panels, which will then be made available to anyone for free who would like to sail without centreboard or rudder! They row very well, and join in the rowing regattas on the east coast. http://www.mersearegatta.org.uk/cobmarsh.htm



Meanwhile Dylan just couldn't wait to get started and this video arrived by e-mail this morning.

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/ktl-3-north-norfolk-and-the-wash/ktl-243-duck-punt-first-weekend/

Will post more progress as it happens.

Brian

 

[simplesimon]

With a bit of thought, that stern could be adapted to take an electric outboard, a rudder or Chris' pedal-yuloh.

Simon

PS If the panels are cut out from the plans, not on the jig, S&T builders may find it easier to use an external jig as it leaves the chine clear inside for glassing and framing.

PPS I don't know if the S&T plans will show the need for a limber hole in the corner of the frames, but they are definitely needed otherwise you can't bail it properly.

[simplesimon]

The sail plan, for those who don't recognise it, uses a standard Optimist sail, sprit and boom.

The mast I suspect is a bit longer than the standard 2.4m Optimist mast (adults find it very difficult to get under the boom on an Optimist); however you can get 2.5m lengths of 47-50mm dia alloy tube easily enough. (Try www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk). You can also get extenders for Optimist spars, or make a spar out of wood.

Simon

[Chris Waite]

Being "Under the boom on an Optimist"

Is that anything like being "before the mast" on a square rigger?





















CW

[simplesimon]

No, we're not allowed to use the lash these days.

[BrianP]

20 sheets of 9mm ply at £27.54 a sheet delivered on eBay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260732421145?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1698wt_905

That's 10 boats for £55 each for ply. Even an extra sheet for frames, mast thwart, upper plank would still be very little for such a cool boat.

Anyone tempted?

Lots of opi rigs around.

Brian

[BrianP]

Progress on Flo-Mo's birch ply 1:10 scale model has gone very well. Now using 3 sheets and has buoyancy tanks.





http://flo-mo.weebly.com/light-weight-stitch-and-tape-conversion-of-the-west-mersea-duck-punt.html

Brian

[Jeremy]

I quite like the look of that hull, Brian.  I wonder how it might work as a 3/4 decked motor boat, powered by a small electric motor?  It would, presumably, need a reclined seating position, but I can imagine it being quite a stable little inland waterways runabout, possibly with raid capabilities.  In between working on the new house (which seems to be taking up almost every waking moment) I've acquired a tiny Honda 4 stroke engine, with the intention of making a low voltage generator.  The engine only weighs 3.4kg, including the fuel tank and runs very quietly (albeit with a modified exhaust).  It has a rated power of around 1kW (about 1 1/3 hp).  If a hull like this only needs maybe 100 watts or so for propulsion, then 1 hours generator run time would give about 10 hours cruise time, which might make for an acceptable runabout

[BrianP]

I think it could work well. Three sheets of 6mm birch ply will be less than £70 so perhaps £200 total.

That's very interesting about a small Honda engine. I had just been wondering what was the smallest generator available on the market.

Since trains use dual power, I had wondered if a gen was small enough, I could use an electric bike to travel further, then leave gen running whilst at the beach then ride home. This way could travel far and wide, just a little fuel or overnight charging when plug in point available.

So same with a small narrow hull such as this. What's nice is that it's such a good looking elegant hull shape, yet uses such little material. They row very well so back up power is simple to carry along. Could even install a Hobie Mirage drive with the floor being flat.

I have other projects on the go, but am very tempted just to get one of these hull stitched up. Keyhaven Marshes are so perfect for  a Duck Punt, it's terrific fun chasing around the narrow shallow cuts in the marshes. The Thames, the Broads, canals etc.

FLO-MO is working towards plans for the S+T version in the New Year.

Brian

[Jeremy]

Brian,

The idea of a "range extender" mini-generator has been used by a few electric bike enthusiasts and works well.  The legality of actually running the generator while the bike is moving hasn't been tested, but in principle it might be legal, as the engine in the generator wouldn't be driving the bike, just charging the batteries.

I agree about the hull shape.  For such a simple boat it looks quite attractive.

[BrianP]

Jeremy, such a neat small affordable generator sounds perfect.

For the Thames Raid one would be certain of power for each new day, rather than worrying if shore power could be found.

For a bicycle range extender, could use same set to run for an hour whilst at the beach, or tour the west country knowing each evening the batteries could be topped up at the camp site.

Perhaps carried on something like a Kona Ute. They do produce an electric version already. It's on sale offer just now and is much reduced.

http://mycargobike.net/2010/06/15/first-look-at-the-kona-electric-ute/



Could you even do this? I was searching for "motorised bicycle" at the weekend and this beauty popped up on my screen

 

http://derringercycles.com/

Back to boats - I think a dual power Duck Punt - well quad power really, sail, oar, electric and generator, could be such fun.

Brian

[BrianP]

"A cargo electric bike seems a good starting point for a hybrid, Brian."

Hope so, I have ordered one. Talked it over with the "boss" at lunchtime and she was happy we try it and see how we go. We plan to cut down cars from a ridiculous three to just one, possibly the new VW UP, and an electric bike. Cancel all sailing club costs, dinghy space space renting will also save loads.

I like the Kona Ute and have been wanting to try an electric bike for a while, so the sale that's just started allowing me to buy one at half price seemed a good offer.

I may tow to Keyhaven with the Ute. The Duck Punt uses so little sheet material that you could use 2 sheets of SP Systems Corecell, available in Southampton, was about £60 a sheet, for a very light boat for car topping or cycle towing and let the batteries bring her weight up so she floats on her marks.

http://www.gurit.com/corecell.aspx

Very interested therefore in your mini generator. That's a very neat engine.

Brian

[Jeremy]

Hope you're happy with the bike, Brian.  I use one of my two electric bikes all the time; one lives at home ready to pop down to the shop, the other is an electric folder that lives in the back of the car and gets used to avoid car parking charges in Salisbury.

[Port-Na-Storm]

Brian, I followed one link too many and found this, http://bikeforth.org/aqua-xtracycle-the-amphibious-bicycle/ I think all of your prayers have been answered.  Its worth watching all of it just to see his launch spot of choice 3mins 30 in. Only joking I just couldn't resist.

[BrianP]

You would be surprised Graham just how close you got. My actual solution to cycling with the Ute with a boat on the back is very close .

I have been wanting something to carry over the cliff top and launch at Milford for a while. Hoping to have a go soon in Aerowherry, she would be an easy carry down the cliff steps, but not a folder. My dizziness means I need more stability than a kayak and even assembling a folder with my head down in the hull is bad for me. An inflatable could be good but most are a bit lightweight for coastal sea conditions. It's rare for the sea to be calm off Milford. Looking at the US river running inflatable kayaks they would be good for small wave surfing but are very expensive and sell in the US. Then I came across a US maker who has a cheaper range, still tough, and although still quite expensive, has a UK seller who for some reason sells them for far less than the US, and has a sale on just now. So one is on it;s way for me to try on the back of the Ute and have a play from home. We are planning a swim on New Year's Day so that might well be the first launching.

 http://aire.com/aire/products/default.aspx?id=210



US price $618, UK price £300 and on sale at £249

http://www.roho.co.uk/acatalog/Canoe_Aire_Inflatable_Kayaks.html

So, quite close Graham, just not using the Ute on the water.

Brian

[BrianP]

Now, back to Duck Punt.

The electric version will be super and the micro generator very innovative for back up security for a small electric boat or bike on longer trips.

Phil Thiel is a designer who loves pedal power, even has 3 canal boats in his range of designs. He uses either a bought pedal unit or a home made version including a large diameter prop.

His Skiffcycle is similar to Duck Punt only not as pretty, but the pedal solutions could be applied.

http://www.mission-base.com/pedal-power/pp_skiffcycle.html



The Seacycle unit retracts like a Laser dagger board, so shallow water launchings are ok.

http://www.sea-cycle.com/index.php/accessories





His own design has drawings for the cycle part, and 4 pages on building a wooden prop



http://www.mission-base.com/pedal-power/pp_prop1.html



Of course, Tim's solution using a Hobie Mirage Drive could be good as well.

Brian.

[BrianP]

FLO-MO has finished the ProSurf design for the Duck Punt. Here's a 360 degree rendering. Plans soon



http://flo-mo.weebly.com/light-weight-stitch-and-tape-conversion-of-the-west-mersea-duck-punt.html

Brian

[BrianP]

Dylan has launched and sailed his Duck Punt. the top video is for slower broadband and the lower if you have good broadband.

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/ktl-4-north-norfolk-and-the-wash/ktl-247-duck-punt-first-sail/

Brian

[David Bewick]

Dylan is obviously having a lot of fun with his new boat and I can certainly see the appeal.  I have had a look at his videos and followed the links to the "official" punt site.  A couple of things struck me... The original punts are clearly a lot chunkier than the newer stich and tape versions (e.g. 10mm versus 6mm ply).  Does anyone know how the new lighter (and, presumably, faster) boats are going to be viewed by the traditionalists?  Also, when people row them, do they just sit on the floor or are there some (removable?) thwarts?

Best regards,

David.

[BrianP]

Dylan wanted a car topper, probably as most would. So 6mm was chosen. I think 9mm could also be used for the S+T version, will check with FLO-MO. If 6mm Birch were used in stead of 10mm okoume the weight difference are smaller, only 1 kg per sq meter and the surface area of the hull is only 5.5 sq m.

I felt that flat bottomed boats need weight in them to perform, so a bag of shingle might be carried to even out performance.

Calculations indicate the 6mm version will be around 40 kg, about 52 kg for 6mm birch and perhaps 66kg for the 10mm version which also has a lot of wood in her, but no taping.

The guys at  Laid Back Sailing http://www.duckpunt.org.uk/ have been completely supportive of making the original plans and these new plans available to all. I reckon these craft will take time to master to racing performance so 24 kg either way will not matter until you started winning! If and when that ever happened just weigh the boats and add that weight in shingle to the lighter craft.

It looks as if they sit on the floorboards when rowing.