Which boaty thing to buy/build?

[Port-Na-Storm]

My general inclination would be to say the more the merrier.

With large flatish plywood panels on the hull I think it would be a good idea to spread the load over as big an area as possible.
For those not familiar with the design you can see what it looks like here, Lynx 14 

Firstly there needs to be a cradle, which means at least two pairs of rollers on each side on a beam which pivots laterally.
The general idea with these trailers is to reverse it into the water until just before the bearings become submerged. There needs to be enough overhang at the rear so that the swinging cradle is as close to the water as possible. The bows are brought onto the cradle which rocks (geddit?) to fit the bow shape, which then can't escape sideways. The winch is attached and you start cawing the handle.

As Al has said an over spec'd winch, and probably a two speed one would help here. You're also going to need a very well attached eye on your bow.

As the boat is pulled up there will be a considerable force on the bow where the rollers are making contact but at this point I don't think its likely that more than two pairs per side can make contact at any time due to the curve of the hull.
As the bow lifts over the cradle, an increasing amount of the boat's weight will ride on the cradle, and there could come a point, probably when it starts to tip, when the whole weight is on the cradle, that's when I think you need all the rollers you can get.

I hope the tipping point is somewhere near a bulkhead

Great fun what!
 

[Paul H (admin)]

Graham,

Thanks - what you described is what I was thinking. But with 6mm hull panels I'm nervous about them taking all the weight during launch/recovery.

The hog is super-strong and the 3 keel rollers will take 99% of the dead weight when she is on the trailer, the side rollers will stabilise the hull and prevent it rocking.

Due to the hull curvature only 4 wheels can contact each side, unless the frame for the wheels can match the curvature of the hull - I could build a custom frame of laminated ply strips bent around the hull for example.

Rather than a single 4x2 each side, two 2x2 each side might mean that all the rollers can touch the hull.

Also the flat-ish mid section and rocker mean that tilting rollers at the back have to be low enough for the mid-section to pass through (assuming the rear keel roller must take the weight). So when winched fully in the rear rollers will be 4-6in below the hull. Basically rear rollers only seem to work well on power boats, which have a fairly constant cross-section from midships towards the transom.

But rear rollers will keep the hull stable when half-on / half-off the trailer.

-Paul

[Paul H (admin)]

Chaps,

Self-centering rollers look like the best things since sliced bread. Spiral grooves move the keel to the centre as she is winched on the trailer. Also a generous 300mm wide to capture the bow in a side wind/tide:




http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320828327104

£24.50 for roller and bracket....think of all those times we have struggled to get the bow lined up with a rear keel roller.

-Paul

[alopenboat]

On 24 Nov 2013 at 15:01, Paul (admin) [via UK HBBR Forum] wrote:

>
> ....think of all those times we have
> struggled to get the bow lined up with a rear keel roller.
>

On this issue, an idea I pinched from, I think,  german trailer is to
have a walkway on the trailer that allows you to get to the rear of
the trailer in front of the boat. It is then much easier to line up
the boat. It keeps my feet dry, too.

--
Hoping for calm nights

Alastair Law,      
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>          

[Paul H (admin)]

alopenboat wrote

On this issue, an idea I pinched from, I think,  german trailer is to
have a walkway on the trailer that allows you to get to the rear of
the trailer in front of the boat. It is then much easier to line up
the boat. It keeps my feet dry, too.

What a great idea!  That ebay site also supplies rubber coated steps, 200mm x 91mm :



They could be bolted to the side frame. But a wooden walkway makes sense also.

-Paul

[Chris Waite]

Coming up fast on the outside....

Has anyone mentioned guide posts like wot I've got on Tit Willow's trailer:



Next, I've seen some American boat trailers that have mudguards which are also steps with nonslip tread on the metal.  Why don't we?

Next, I find that a major problem when winching on is the boat rolling sideways onto one bilge; "crunch", but not too badly yet.

And finally, what about break back trailers, where the spine is hinged allowing the cradle to tilt backwards while the hitch stays on its jockey wheel, (or towball)?

I'd like to have put some more images up, but cyberspace is not cooperating this morning

Tsk, tsk

CW

[Timmo]

Your main problem looks like the lack of wheels Mr Dubs!

Regarding breakback trailers, they seem to be the norm in the Netherlands and work really well. The back drops down into the water (remove the trailer board first!) and the boat just slides up onto it, all tips back into place as the boat reaches the balance point. Only problem... we ran one trailer down by hand, put the handbrake on then pulled the pin for the break back... trailer immediately tried to dissapear into the water. Can't quite remember the mechanics but basically the brake cable went slack as the back tipped. Not a problem when on a vehicle, complete pain when manhandling it. Luckily the were wheel chocks handy on that occasion.

On 26 Nov 2013, at 11:33, Chris Waite [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Coming up fast on the outside....

[alopenboat]

On 26 Nov 2013 at 4:14, Timmo [via UK HBBR Forum] wrote:

>
>
> Your main problem looks like the lack of wheels Mr Dubs!
>
> Regarding breakback trailers, they seem to be the norm in the
> Netherlands and work really well. The back drops down into the water
> (remove the trailer board first!) and the boat just slides up onto it,
> all tips back into place as the boat reaches the balance point. Only
> problem... we ran one trailer down by hand, put the handbrake on then
> pulled the pin for the break back... trailer immediately tried to
> dissapear into the water. Can't quite remember the mechanics but
> basically the brake cable went slack as the back tipped. Not a problem
> when on a vehicle, complete pain when manhandling it. Luckily the were
> wheel chocks handy on that occasion.
>

Why were you breaking the back when the trailer wasn't attached to
the car? Surely the trailer would have tipped anyway.

I agree though that it appears to be a flaw in the design.

My trailer follows all the principles of a breakback trailer, except
it doesn't break. This presents the boat at a shallow angle near the
surface of the water instead of steeply angled at the sea bed, so
allows launching into shallower water. It needs the trailer to be
sturdy (heavy) though.

--
Hoping for calm nights

Alastair Law,      
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>          

[Chris Waite]

Ah; you spotted the fatal flaw!

Actually that leads to another "Don't".  When I first ordered that trailer for 'Tit Willow', I was eagerly persuaded by the perpetrator to have a road trailer that converted to a trolley for seasonal use.

Sounds idyllic, doesn't it?

It's all right as long as you are certain you're not going to need the boat somewhere else for that summer and are prepared to spend a couple of hours stripping the road wheels and brake system off the frame, along with the hitch.

The couple of hours involves a lot of rust, stinging nettles and gravel, at each conversion, back and forth.

I "acquired" a couple of lovely light-aircraft wheels for the trolley aspect.  So beautiful in fact, that I dare not leave them out for fear of sun and sneak-thieves.  So what you are witnessing is Mistress 'TW' parked up with the rolling gear removed and hidden in the back of my '4 x 4', the Great White Galloper.

And as for tipping break-back trailers - I tip a standard trailer to get little 'Polly Wee' on and off at the water's edge.  Even a teensy-weensy trailer such as she requires weighs enough to make the lifting the hitch three or four feet in the air, while winding a winch with the other hand, noticeable.

I hesitate to think of the effort required to make sure even Ms. 'Millibee' and her trailer would be at the right angle to achieve launch and recovery.

Bring it on home....

CW

[Jeremy]

Break back trailers are great.  I had one for my last "big" boat, fitted with four vertical alloy scaffold poles covered in rubber hose (car radiator hose I think) in the corners.  These poles were around 6ft high, so reached just above the gunwales when the boat was sat on the trailer.  I had alloy scaffold clamps and a few 18" lengths of alloy scaffold tube clamped to one of the poles as an access ladder (essential on a boat where the gunwales are a foot above head height when the boats sitting up on the trailer).

Getting the boat on the trailer was easy.  Back the trailer down the ramp so that the back wheels of the car were just in the water, undo the break back bolts and tip it back, get in the dinghy, transfer to the boat on the mooring and gently motor it in between the four poles (which is all that could be seen of most of the trailer!).  The poles were a bit flexible at the top, so a strap around them to pull then in tight centred the keel over the keel tray.  Tie the bow to the trailer, step down the pole with the steps and get in the car and drive it up the ramp slowing.  As the weight of the boat came on the trailer the break back would automatically tilt back level, pulling the stern of the boat out of the water.  Do up the locking bolts, tie her down and drive off.

No, on second thoughts, don't drive off until you've remembered to lower the mast.............  Did that once and got around 1/4 mile from Loch Ryan Sailing Club before the mast discovered the first telephone wire across the road, which broke with a loud twang.  It has to be said I felt a bit of an idiot not having noticed nearly 30ft of mast sticking up in the air when checking and double checking all the tie down straps................

[Chris Partridge]

That's the way to do it, but how often did you have to replace the bearings?

[Jeremy]

The trailer wheels only got immersed twice a year, once at the spring launch, once more at the autumn recovery.  The bearing caps were those spring-loaded ones filled with grease, with a grease nipple in the centre.  Once a year a few squirts with the grease gun re-pressurised the caps.

Don't know if you can still get them, but they were a great gadget, I thought.  The spring loaded plunger inside the bearing cap ensured that the pressure of grease in the hub was always greater than that of the water trying to get in, so they stayed dry and full of grease.

[Port-Na-Storm]

These  Bearing Buddies sound like a similar kind of thing.Has anyone tried them? I sometimes think that a lightweight, possibly aluminium or dare I say it Laminated Wood, trailer with alloy wheels and properly set up rollers, which would double as road and launch trolley might be the ideal solution. Go on tell me why I'm wrong. I know someone will.

[Jeremy]

The ones I had looked like the Indespension bearing saver ones lower down the page, with the spring loaded plunger visible when you pull off the plasit dust cover.  They were a direct replacement for the pressed metal cap that's normally in the centre of an Indespension hub.  They came with the custom break back trailer I had built by Helston Trailers back in around 1991 and the bearings were still fine when I sold the trailer in around 2004, despite having been immersed twice a year.

The did leak a bit of grease out of the back seal, which was a good indicator that they needed a top up (easily checked by pulling the plastic cap off and seeing if the plunger was bottomed out).  It was only a two minute job to squirt a bit of grease in before getting the trailer immersed, though,

[Chris Partridge]

For those of us who go for the trailer/sailer option with, a combi is better I think. Works for rowing boats, anyway.

[alopenboat]

On 28 Nov 2013 at 12:46, Port-Na-Storm [via UK HBBR Forum] wrote:

>
>
> These   Bearing Buddies
> <http://www.trailertek.com/acatalog/Bearing_buddies.html>  sound like
> a similar kind of thing.Has anyone tried them? I sometimes think that
> a lightweight, possibly aluminium or dare I say it Laminated Wood,
> trailer with alloy wheels and properly set up rollers, which would
> double as road and launch trolley might be the ideal solution. Go on
> tell me why I'm wrong. I know someone will.
>

I have the type shown farther down that page (Ref: BRG152) on my big
(motor boat) trailer. Never had a bearing problem in 25 years, the
brakes on the other hand .......

Would a wooden trailer be road legal these days?

--
Hoping for calm nights

Alastair Law,      
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>          

[Steve Brown]

              During my diving club days we had a 6 metre
         Humber Destroyer Rib on a Hallmark 4 wheeled
         trailer.
              The hubs were fitted with Indespension Bearing
         Savers Ref BRG152 and I cannot remember changing  
         the bearings in 3 to 4 years of use. Just kept pumping
         grease into them.
              Hope this is of some help.

                                             Steve (Penny).

[Paul H (admin)]

Apologies for the radio silence possums - where do I start?

CW, this is how I winch MilliBee from the concrete drive onto her trailer. It's not as bad as it looks but a bit fiddly to avoid hull damage on the concrete.  If I can recover her from a concrete drive then she can be recovered from just about anywhere.

The trick is to lift the trailer and hook the rear roller under the bow:



I moved the rollers to the rear and they worked a treat keeping her level. But the remains of the bilge cases are a pain. Here is my list of planned tweeks:

1) Plane the bilge cases within 12mm of the hull, they interfere with the rollers.
2) 300mm wide keel rollers,
3) One pair of those 4x2 wheels.

-Paul