ccc 2014

[3styler]

So what's the consensus?

I am currently cursing the fact my boat is 2' too long and don't really want to take a chainsaw to it......
I don't want to spend unlimited funds trying to get it to plane.........
But agree with the 36v rule...... It's simple! and no gearbox......:)

However since building my first boat, I worked out a cunning way of slashing the build time and wonder what the market would be like for a 10' easy build tender kit......

What are your thoughts on it?

Cheers,

Simon

[Alan]

Go for it - but there must be dozens of easy-build 10' tender kits.

I'm planning to build a stretched version of the Paul Gartside pram tender recently featured in Watercraft. It'll be my first real boatbuild, apart from Four Candles, and a folding canoe. There, I've made it public so now I'm committed to do it.

[Chris Waite]

Meanwhile, back on one of my favourite harps

Sheets of ply are eight foot long, so here's an 'eight foot' pram that accidentally slipped off the back of my fag packet a few years ago now -

 

It never got further than the cardboard cut out above, but it could easily be stretched to ten

And if it doesn't do what most other eight or ten foot dinghies can do

I'll eat my rowlocks

CW

Oh, and here's Big Chris Partridge on the Arun in his one sheet pram -

[Dennis A]

Cordless Tender Challenge<

I have been told by Pete of Watercraft that the distance for this challenge from the Slipway to the Boat Building Academy Pontoon is approximately 130 m each way.Therefore one battery should do this distance provided that the boat is not pushed too hard.

Dennis

[Alan]

Any CCC news? Photographs? Tales of mild panic, becoming gale force later?

After announcing here the build of a proper boat, it's not going to get done and we have now booked a holiday over the Beale weekend anyway. Good luck to all the builders and of course to the HBBR raiders who will be meeting there.

[Dennis A]

Adventures at this years races

I had a good weekend winning on both days. On Saturday I got through the heats & won the final as well.  I had not practiced with a passenger and was surprised to find that Wendy made virtually no difference to the trimarans speed ( but I did bring a light passenger).

There were 7 entries with Simon in a shorter Pagan to meet the 10 ft. rule being my only real challenge. His boat was sporting a clever long tail drive system but the 4 bladed propeller and his lovely 36V drill were not compatible and it burnt out. Pagan reappeared for the final with a 18V  drill and a modified propeller with only 2 blades. This showed potential but made me think that if he had used the 36V drill with the 2 bladed propeller it would have been a much tighter race.

For the Sunday races there was only 5 entices so the management decided to run 2 races with all the participants starting together and a points system awarded to the finishers. The highest score from the summation of the points from both of the 2 races would be the overall winner.
My boat was stripped down to the lightest that I could get by removing the centre float and floor boards making it now a catamaran.
The entery from Southamptom University, Chicken Nugget was a open Canadian type canoe with 3 drills coupled by chain.The beautiful propeller was about 150 mm diameter multi bladed,  made from solid aluminium and milled on a CNC machine.
Toby on Canute was also racing using a 36 V drill and a slightly reduced propeller size.
In race 1, myself, Toby and the Chicken Nugget went off together and I proved to be slightly faster. I won this race but actually coasted across the line with no power. Chicken Nugget was 2nd with battery problems and Toby failed to finish having burnt out his drill but his boat still has the best turning circle.

For race 2  I decided that 2nd place would do and make me joint first on overall points but I had to finish.  I reduced the drills to low speed and hoped that Chicken Nugget would run out of battery power and I would catch him up.  Unfortunately I was outsmarted by the clever graduates who had a spare set of batteries did a good racing change and therefore did not slow down. Second place for me, which meant a draw for first on overall points. I did a racing gear change on the final run in leg and achieved 6.4. mph across the finish line but this was much much to late to catch them.

Sorry if I did not give any of the other enties a mention but it is difficult to see what is going on when racing. Ayrspeed set a record of finishing all the races that  it has entered

I was disappointed to see so few entries but felt that this years competition was not advertised as well as earlier years, but I did like the Tender race. I hope that our sponsors will give us the opportunity to compete next year.

Makita Drills

I was using 2 of their current drills model DHP456 and found these very suitable for this type of event. In most of the races one or both drills over heated and cut out, but after about 1 hour they reset themselves. Likewise the batteries tripped out but no damage was done. The batteries then take about 1 1/4 hours to recharge as the fan in the charger unit has to cool the battery down.

Dennis

[3styler]

Dennis,

Many thanks for the summary......, and yes, putting four blades on was a mistake........:(. Interestingly the two bladed prop has the same pitch and diameter

I do hope that the event runs next year especially as I now have a working boat and a cunning plan...:). The tender challenge is interesting and deserves more entrants. More publicity and explaining how easy it is to put something together would really help boost the numbers

I was intrigued to hear about the approach from the University. In some ways for the unlimited event, this is the key to getting more entrants  - as university and school projects, people who have the time to do something whacky.........

You did mention speeds. Removing that float added another 1.2mph  - result. For the CCC 600, can I ask what the speed of  Chicken Nugget  verses Velociraptor was?

Here's to next year (providing my rather public cremation of one of their 36v hammer drills does not put off the sponsor)

Simon.

p.s. if you are doing another informal race let us know......

Many thanks for the feedback on the CCC...Other feedback, from participants or onlookers, on the CCC or the Beale show generally, would be much appreciated.

To follow up on a couple of points, despite the effects of Saturday's weather forecast and deluge on visitor numbers and consequent gate receipts, the new organiser David Read has confirmed the Beale Show is going ahead next year... 5/6/7 June... so I can confirm we will be running our Cordless Canoe Challenges. It's too early for Makita to confirm their sponsorship: they have to wait for the next year's budgets to be approved.

I agree that it would be great to have more universities, colleges and schools taking part but though there is real interest, the Beale weekend tends to fall in the middle of exams for many. However, Southampton Uni is already talking about another entry next year.

While our general feeling is that we will not be messing about too much with the rules for next year... ie we'll do the CTC and the CCC as this year... we are debating possible tweaks which might attract more entries. For example, do we need to have limits on boat lengths at all? One reader said the 10' limit just excluded his old Mirror dinghy; why not any length in either event to open it more? Your thoughts welcome.

And yes, we are still keenly awaiting that first cordless hydrofoil!

Pete

[Dennis A]

Simon - Speeds in CCC 600

Chicken Nugget stated that during practice they achieved slightly over 5 knots or 5.8 mph.
I was fastest (see graph) so this seams about right.

Velociraptor at Henley last year was slightly faster than my Fast 3 and I clocked 7.7 mph max.

I have now scrapped my twin outboard motors and reverted to a long tail system driven by a single 18V drill. In the local canal last Sunday, I achieved 6.5 mph but then slowed down caused by cavitation/ventilation.  This has been a pain this year on all types of drive so I am designing a new series of propellers.

Pete - Races for 2014

I think that to increase the length on the boats for the Tender race is a good idea but hope that you still keep the 36V limit.  This would then allow Velociraptor, Chicken Nugget or similar canoes to race but with limited power.  I would not increase the course length or number of turns as you are starting to get towards the power limit for the drills.
This can be seen on my graph, the speed starts to slow down over the race length.  Also the number of failures of drills burning out would increase.  

Dennis

[Alan]

Thanks for the report, and well done Dennis.
There is a Youtube video of Chicken Nugget in which Dennis can briefly be seen.
Did the spectators appear to enjoy the racing?
On eBay it is possible to buy a combined propeller/shaft/hand held housing specifically for use with a cordless drill....it must be getting popular.

[3styler]

Alan,

I bought one of these drill paddles off of eBay. I'm pretty impressed with it. It can drive Pagan at about 3mph (delivered about 1/4 horsepower...... ) and is a viable means of emergency propulsion. There is a downside which is when you drop it overboard and your drill gets wet.....and speaking from personal experience drill don't like that.

What was interesting was that after using it, I changed the drive system on Pagan from something complex using gears, to a long tail that I engineered and made in the 48 hours leading up to the event........:) and have not looked back.....

Dennis and Pete,

I can see why increasing the length for the ctc makes sense to get a few more boats in, especially the Mirror, however I would say the 15' canoes would have an unfair advantage for carrying two people with limited power. There is no substitute for waterline length at displacement speeds.

It is hard to make a 10' ish boat that can carry two people efficiently under power and I would be keen if that remained the focus of the competition. I was impressed it inspired entries like Fast 3 and due to the fun nature of the event, I don't think it will struggle for entries.

Where I would seek a rule change would be to the ccc600. I would keep the boats 16' maximum but allow drives to extend outside of this allowing long tail drives which are simple to make. What I think limits entries is the complexity required to make a prop shaft which means you are effectively making a bespoke boat for the event.

Simon.

Thanks Simon, Dennis, Alan... Very helpful.

I had almost convinced myself to increase the tender length to 11' in the hope of encouraging more entries when a lady of my acquaintance suggested it might have the opposite effect... Her argument: onlookers see the CCC one year, decide to enter the next... only to learn we've introduced new rules (again!) and so decide to wait to see them in operation before committing their time etc to an entry.

Her suggestion: go for the WYSIWYG approach. So we have decided to run it next year to this year's rules, with the exception... on Simon's suggestion... that the current 10' & 16' length limits only apply to the hull; longtails of any length can be added in both CTC and CCC but will not be measured. (Not that we ever did!)

Hopefully, we'll have the video up on our website and YouTube by the end of this week.

Thanks again

Pete

[Paul H (admin)]

Pete,

My thoughts below are intended to help - so don't take them the wrong way.

I've always thought using power tools to drive a canoe as silly; no boat engineer would ever use such a motor with brushes and batteries designed for very short cycles. Look at every single electric boat on the planet - does it use power tools? No!

Look at Formula 1 this year. Regenerative braking to charge batteries into a corner in parallel with mechanical braking, given an 80hp boost along the straights with an electric motor. They are also strictly limited to 100kg of fuel per race, with a limit of 1.7kg per lap I think. Basically you cannot finish a race without regenerative charging at corners. All extremely high tech to research and pioneer electric cars in the future.

So why not have a limit on battery energy and allow any motor to be used. Widgets from the RC world to monitor energy consumed are less than £20. Then you start to pioneer practical small electric boats/canoes with efficiency in mind. Give a special award for the chap that does a lap with minimum energy etc. or furthest distance for a given energy.

Make it exciting for the crowds for sure, but watch an F1 grand prix and they have real time fuel used per car per lap and the race so far. Lewis Hamilton seems to use less fuel than anyone, but he is second in the championship.

I understand sponsorship, but the practical reality is that cordless drills are not going to replace diesel engines or 4 stroke outboards.

So how about:
Cordless category
First past the post knockout...its fun to watch
Second prize for most efficient lap in a given time etc. [using energy meters for electric RC models]

Open category
For any motor, but a strict limit on energy per lap. In other words the chap with a huge motor might be penalised and lose against a more modest motor (which could be a cordless!). Adjust rules on day to make it fun. Its highly likely the winners will be the electric boats of the future, just like the F1 concept.


cheers
Paul


Edit: Replaced power with energy (energy is what shows on your home meter, for your electric bills)

Canoe distance per energy is like miles per gallon, lower means less CO2 blah blah blah.

[Paul H (admin)]

Pete,

This is the kind of widget that monitors power and energy:



Cheap as chips on ebay. The Wh shows how much energy the boat used around the lap[s], less is good!

-cheers
Paul

EDIT: replaced power with energy

Thanks, Paul... and apologies for the belated response; getting the CCC video together always takes longer than we think it will. Should now be on the Water Craft website by Saturday.

We went the cordless power tools route because we felt it would be the most immediately accessible starting point for readers. The batteries are readily available and small enough to slip into a pocket or two, yet pre-charged at home or at the yacht club, with enough oomph, perhaps, to get a tender out to a mooring and back... encouraging readers to come up with the right tender and the right drive system. Very fortunately, Makita liked the idea of the contest and have been great sponsors.

However, I do accept the points you make about the real limitations of the tool motors and batteries and would like to see the kind of contest you outline at Beale but perhaps it would be more appropriately organised by one of the clubs... the Electric Boat Assn?.... or non-clubs... dare I suggest....

Pete

[Paul H (admin)]

Pete,

Thanks - I can see the Makita sponsorship being very important for the Show, so obviously we want to keep that format.

Maybe the HBBR/DCA group could roughly disorganise an "Open" category. Jeremy knows a lot about measurement of battery energy (as I do with an electronics background) so once we have a fair way to measure energy for all contestants we can think of a suitable "race" that is both entertaining and gets the right message about efficiency across at the show.

BTW: I was shocked to hear canal boats can use one litre of diesel per mile! How many Makita batteries is that?  There has to be better solutions in smaller boats surely.

cheers
Paul

[simplesimon]

AYRS might be persuaded to put a prize up.

Pete would need to be sure that it wouldn't upset Makita though

Simon

[simplesimon]

Paul (admin) wrote

Jeremy knows a lot about measurement of battery energy (as I do with an electronics background) so once we have a fair way to measure energy for all contestants

If you provided some kind of smart meter fitted to each contestant boat, then you could maybe use it as a handicap generator -
        corrected time = actual race time * energy used/"standard number"
(CF Portsmouth Handicap for sailing boats)

Simon

[Alan]

from the CCC2013 thread:

So, with the benefit of hindsight and the comments above I suggest there could be a 60Wh class which would include one of my drills or two smaller ones, essentially a single drill class as Tim suggests, and easily policed by looking at the battery.

Nothing needed to measure energy on this basis.

[Paul H (admin)]

simplesimon wrote

Paul (admin) wrote

Jeremy knows a lot about measurement of battery energy (as I do with an electronics background) so once we have a fair way to measure energy for all contestants

If you provided some kind of smart meter fitted to each contestant boat, then you could maybe use it as a handicap generator -
        corrected time = actual race time * energy used/"standard number"
(CF Portsmouth Handicap for sailing boats)

Simon

Simon

Spot on. A small meter to measure the energy, then a formula to allow for race time. Also another prize for the most efficient motor/hull combination.

-Paul