look at this little row boat

[Anders]

Hi
I´ve been looking around for a small uncomplicated rowboat that I MAYBE will build. Cheap, easy, pretty, light and cartoppable.

I´ve always liked Flo-mo´s 1 and 2 sheet designs, especially his Romax:
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?118043-Romax-a-two-sheet-rowboat&highlight

But, its to long.... So I fiddled with his design, shortened it. His design is pretty much "bended" around the center with long, almost straight lines going to the bows. I made two models. The first one I direct print out of his off-sets sceme came out so well that I decided to make another model in 1/10 Here it is:
Length 375cm (12´4)
Beam   114cm (3´9)
height at mid section: 40 cm






Here you can see the midsection. There´s a nice flare with a wateline breadth of aproxx 80 - 90 cm. Not to much initial stability but some extra for the odd speedboat wave


Here you can see what I´ve "done" to flo-mo´s design. Just the two lower strakes. Thats what makes the 2 lower strakes, the top strake is just a 22cm wide parallel piece.


Here you have a lines plan from Flo-mo´s design. I know its clumsy drawing, but you can use it to compare the midsection and thats what worries me a bit. The original has a flatter bottom and will therefore have a higher initial stability, but the difference is not that big


I dont know to much about row boats. I´ve always been a sail dude, but I´ve liked rowing when I´ve done. It feels good. Besides, rowboats are simple and cheaper to build.
So what do you think. Is it a good idea. I like the looks, and it looks like it will move along very easily. . The use: 1 person fixed seat rowing, maybe a passenger once in a while. Sheltered waters, maybe a few summer days here on Spains south Atlantic coast, where its always calm in summer.

[Chris Waite]

Ah Anders!

Can I offer you nearly sixteen feet for your two sheets?  All the straight lines you could wish for and almost no wasted wood at all.  Longer serving members will know all this already, but the eight pieces are all the same basic shape and only the bow and stern needed cutting in to create the shape of the ends; took a third sheet and a load of stuffing around to get to the last picture - Chris W:

[Anders]

Hi Chris

So what do you think about the idea that I posted?

Its a nice design, yours. Semi tortured? The whole thing is that I dont want 16 feet... Flo-mo´s is also close to 16 feet. Here in Spain, they dont like that we drive around with boats longer than our cars, so 13 feet is max.

[Chris Waite]

I understand what you mean about not needing all sixteen feet Anders

I had to build diagonally across the garage, only reached the port side by crawling underneath and couldn't see the ends at all; it wasn't just the ply that was tortured.  All to prove how much boat I might squeeze out of two sheets of ply - straight masochism.  So nothing any longer than twelve feet comes out of this garage in future and I have been wondering if I could apply the same principles used in designing that skiff at the shorter length.  I haven't actually built anything serious this winter and cabin fever is really setting in.  Apparently it's been the greyest winter for a decade in the South East of England and when I look in the mirror all I see is this pallid wrinkled slug, (no comment).  However, today is sunny....  Spring; please?

I'm sure your foreshortened version will be fine - I've never heard a boat yet say "I'm sorry but I have a morsel too much angle on the floors and refuse to put to sea today".  However, the one I really liked was your little Dutch model with the leeboards and the tumblehome coaming/top strake.  Not only does it look lovely, I suspect it reduces drag by directing air up over the hull and into the sails.

I don't recall, are you going to build that?

Chris W

[Anders]

No, it wasnt me with the punt. It was Authun. Somewhere in east England. Yorkshire, I think.

I think the idea of making 1, 11/2, 2, 3 sheet boats is great. But often it ends up being more of a mindgame than a boat. Its like who can win the medal of build most out of less. Your design and some of Flo-mo´s are amongst the best I´ve seen.
I like that you use less. Its cheaper. A typical Stich and tape or clinker build, same size as yours will normally mean twice as much ply and a lot of waste. At the same time I´m sweet lines snob and there´s something about 3 and four strakes a side on a elegant rowing boat.

Your design: could it be shortened to around 12 - 13´? Also, what is the width, midship height. Do you have a center frame for it? It control stiching a lot. More photos of the building process?

[Chris Waite]

Sorry to confuse you with Athun, Anders and you with Anders, Athun

Two lovely models and too many amazing continental A's and N's; so now you know how easy it is to confuse an Englishman.

I actually wrote an article on 'Octavia' in Watercraft magazine - W77.  She was built with a substantial double frame amidships as she actually comes apart in two halves at that point, which is where the ends of the half planks meet.  This was for storage and to prove it, both halves are standing against the wall a few feet away, on the other side of the garage.  I also used her two halves leant together, as a tent of sorts, when we last did the Thames Raid.

The 'wings' for her rowlocks detach and can be swapped side for side, which throws the rowlocks forward; either way, they help lock the two halves togther.  The oarsman's seat can be moved from amidships to just aft of the fordeck.  This combination allows for rowing by myself amidships, or forward if I have a passenger.  The transom was just for fun and as I said was torture for the ply and myself - it could be much simpler if necessary.

I agree about the improvement in appearance with extra strakes, which is the main reason my little gaffer has three a side, though I think I must be getting lazy in my old age as I am trying to reduce the number of seams in my designs as much as possible, while retaining all the curves I can, to try and please the eye.

'Octavia' is about fourteen inches deep, keel to gunwale amidships, but the stem rises up and the fordeck with it, so her maximum depth in that area is about eighteen inches.  Her beam without the 'wings' is forty-two inches and five foot across the wings, between the rowlocks.  Interesting you should ask about foreshortening her; Reinhold in Germany asked the same question.  I am pretty sure she would reduce down to twelve foot and have thought of trying it myself, but haven't even got as far as a cardboard model yet.

Chris W

[Anders]

I know your design from the Rowing for pleasure blog. I think you´ve done really great and i love the "tent" Nothing like sleeping under a boat.

Flo-mo has made some 3D renderings of the model that I made and he´s also made a model. You can see it here: (scroll down, its the green one)
http://flo-mo.weebly.com/two-sheet-boats.html

I think the main problem with this design/version is that it has to much sheerline. The bows are to high. Its good for a surfboat going in and out on beaches, but its a problem when rowing in wind. I have a 14´prospector canoe and when there´s just a little bit wind, I can hardly keep it up against the wind because of the high bows.




I have made a new model of the same design, with a wineglass transom. I will take some photos tomorrow. Its very interesting and shows how close doubleenders and Whitehalls are.
I will try to post some photos tomorrow.

[Anders]

for those of you interested, here you have the latest model I´ve made over Flo-mo´s Romax










Here you have my latest model. Its 385cm long, (12´8) 115cm (3´9) wide and the midheight of the hull is 35cm (14"). As you can see this time the midsection is just like the Romax. Its pure luck, the lines of the strake are the same and tells me that a midsection frame would be a good idea.
I´ve cut 4mm (4cm real) of the sheerline. Its still very strong but a lot better. And I´ve added a small wineglass transom. A small transom is an advantage when you cartop alone. You can leave the boat bottom up and lift the bow. The transom does that the boat wont roll over.

Its an interesting study that shows how close doubleenders are to pulling boats like the Whitehalls or Thames skiffs.

[Chris Waite]

I think that's beautiful Anders

I also agree about the windage.  Octavia was intially very directionally unstable and when on the upper reaches of the Thames, that was quite an advantage as there are more twists and turns than you'd find in a dog fight.  It also meant I couldn't stop rowing for a minute as she needed constant correction.  So I added a small skeg aft and she will now continue to glide forward in a straight line without requiring any steering.

However, it did mean that on our River Wey, a tributary of the Thames, I was having to fight round the corners instead.  At the same time out in the wider reaches of Chichester harbour, the bow now tends to blow off so it's difficult to win for losing.  Horses for Courses I suppose, and people will suggest I add a rudder, but that is a complication I am trying to avoid.

Chris the W

[Anders]

Chris, what kind of ply did you use for Octavia.

Here you have model number 3, still using the same strakes. This time I have lifted the transom a bit in order to use a transom that follows the the lines more and I´ve also added a skeg. It gives a fuller hull aft and some more boyancy. Besides that a lower bow which is vertical. This is my personal favorite. Perhaps not so flashy as the wineglass version, but a better hull I think.
Will I build it, maybe, I dont know for now. I´m pretty sure it´ll be a nice litlle cartopable skiff for 1 person relaxed rowing, sheltered waters.
The process has been very interesting.






and last, the 3 models together. Pick your favorite:

[BrianP]

My favourite is the new one. Looks very "right".

Much better load carrier for children or passenger in the stern.
Very nice.

Brian

[Anders]

Brian

I agree with the looking right thing. Thats why I prefer the last one myself
But it could be something cultural. the newest look more European or even more British. The Americans in general have higher bows and more "swing" in their sheer. Some places in Europe, the sheer is almost flat. Look at Viviers boats, they do in general have a relatively flat sheer, but small crafts in France Spain and Portugal look like that and they are very seaworthy.