Drying green timber

[Timmo]

Recently had a couple of trees taken down to make room for new ones. One was a yew. Tree surgeons were friends of my son so got a good rate. Allowed one to take the yew to cut into planks on his new saw mill in return for two lovely planks out of it. Will work out what to do with them one day.

When collecting my planks from his yard I noticed a tree trunk in two halves lying in the bushes at one side. Western red cedar he says, going to cut it for firewood when we get the time.

Short conversation later and he's milling it into 1" planks and delivering it for £200. Hope that's a good price!



That's the top half of the tree (about 16 ft long 8 planks ranging from 1' to 3' wide plus several that will make nice short pieces), bottom half will be delivered in a couple of weeks (more consistent width and more like 18' long.) Should be more than enough for me to scratch the strip plank build itch a couple of times and still make a wardrobe for Kate.

Two things:

First does anyone have experience of sticking, stacking and drying and do you have tips (like can it be done under a tarp because I've no room under cover and how long does it take to dry enough to use?)

Second, the lad Paul is a nice chap trying to get his sawmill business up and running. He's got oak, cherry, ash, beech lying around plus new stock coming in weekly and he's happy to cut to people's specification if you're able to take and dry the wood. He's got timber sticked and air drying so will be able to supply seasoned wood in due course. Probably not conveniently located for many of you but thought I'd share his contact details.

Paul Acreman (Acremans Timber)
Wiggington, Oxfordshire
07778 936245
[e-mail]
www.sawmillpro.co.uk

Tim.

[momist]

I don't have experience of sticking and drying in quantity, but some green timber I was storing went too green - with a mould growth that ate into the wood and destroyed its colour and usability for me.  It followed the grain right the length of the log leaving black streaks and large brown blotches.

If you are going to cover it with a tarp, I suggest it has to NOT be in contact with the wood, to permit a clear passage of air through the stack AND over the top.  Leave as much open as you can.

[Timmo]

Thanks. Have a couple of pallets on top under tarp to create air space all round. But still concerned about air circulation, something I'll have to watch. Hope for dry days and gentle breezes when I can uncover it the stacks.

Tim.


On 11 Mar 2014, at 21:48, momist [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't have experience of sticking and drying in quantity, but some green timber I was storing went too green - with a mould growth that ate into the wood and destroyed its colour and usability for me.  It followed the grain right the length of the log leaving black streaks and large brown blotches.
>
> If you are going to cover it with a tarp, I suggest it has to NOT be in contact with the wood, to permit a clear passage of air through the stack AND over the top.  Leave as much open as you can.
>

[Jeremy]

The local saw mill where I bought a couple of thousand pounds worth of larch from recently (to clad my house, not build an ocean liner.........) just stack timber in the open to dry, with no cover.  I think they just accept that the top few planks in any stack are sacrificial and will get sun bleached/dried too quickly.

I've no idea what the drying time is, but we clad our new house with fresh sawn (green) larch that was felled in November, milled early December and on the house before the New Year.  Yesterday I had to cut a section of the cladding off on the North wall (to fit our pump house) and the larch was definitely very green still, it didn't seem to have seasoned at all and was very "stringy" and pretty hard to saw.  This was for 20mm thick boards.

I have probably a dozen or so wide waney edge larch boards spare, around 3 to 4m long and 20mm thick if someone has a need for it.  Not an ideal boat building timber, perhaps, but fairy durable.

[Timmo]

See the sense in that. Can't bring myself to write off the top planks but I could find something I am willing to sacrifice to put on top. I'll be trimming edges off anyway so they can be open to the air. Better that creating a humid oven inside a tarp.

Hopefully we'll get drier and warmer weather over the next few months than the cladding on your house has experienced over the winter!

Tim.


On 12 Mar 2014, at 07:43, Jeremy [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The local saw mill where I bought a couple of thousand pounds worth of larch from recently (to clad my house, not build an ocean liner.........) just stack timber in the open to dry, with no cover.  I think they just accept that the top few planks in any stack are sacrificial and will get sun bleached/dried too quickly.

[momist]

Again, I can't speak from experience, but all the books I've read suggest drying time should be one year for each inch of thickness (for hardwoods).

Larch was highly favoured for boat shipbuilding, with many a rowing boat crafted of clinker larch on oak frames.  Light and durable.  Many of the larch plantations suffering the ravages of the latest disease were planted as an investment just prior to the royal navy converting to ironclad ships, to provide their huge demand for shipbuilding!   Of course, they then never got used that way.   Larch can also make some nice cabinet work if used creatively.

If you were a bit closer to Lancashire, I'd come and get some from you just for playing with  

Ian

[David Bewick]

Tim,

It is nice to be able to get timber like this, straight from the saw mill.  I wish you well with the Yew when you get around to it - it can be a real bugger to plane!

As far as the Cedar is concerned, I think you could either put a well ventilated tarp over it or just put some sacrificial boards on top of it while it dries out. Even if it gets rained on a few times the water will not get into the pores of the wood.  The rule of thumb for the time it takes to dry is a year for each inch of thickness.  I have never really understood this because I think most of the moisture comes out of the ends as the timber dries, but that is what they say.   I would also be thinking about keeping it inside for a few weeks after that before actually using it.  In a timber yard, they often paint the ends of boards to slow down the drying process to reduce cracking.

Have fun.

David.

[simplesimon]

I have a vague notion that yew can warp when it isn't dried carefully.

Try googling "longbow maker" and ring one of them up and ask for advice.

Simon

[Paul H (admin)]

Timmo,

Chipping in with my experience:

MilliBee is permanently covered all year and the tarp is open at the stern, 5 feet from the house so sheltered from rain in that direction. I had a problem with the rain pooling on the tarp, dragging it down and without knowing it slowly leaked inside.
There were a few inches on water inside that created black mould on the untreated new cabin front, despite the companionway being open right through to the stern. Painted or epoxied surfaces where mould free.
So I think the key issue was humidity and lack of airflow. There is nothing you can do about humidity in the winter which can peak at over 95% at night, but a good airflow eventually dries things.

Its also critical to ensure nothing touches the wood, even other planks. It looks like you have them separated but its good to remove a few planks and compare the relative dryness on each side, especially where the battens separate each plank.

I like to dry wood indoors on the floor of a spare bedroom. It's vital to keep it flat so I add weights to correct twists and bends - with patience its remarkable how you can straighten out defects over a few weeks. Carpet seems to work well, perhaps it lets the bottom surface breathe, and it compresses so the weights add a very slight temporary curve in the right direction. Also indoors the humidity stays close to 50%.

-Paul

[Jeremy]

This is pretty much the pile of left over larch I have, although I've be using some to clad a very small timber meter cabinet in the garden.

If it's OK for boat building I may find an out of the way place to stack it all to season and see what I can do with it.

[momist]

Timmo,

Just by chance, one of the blogs I follow has turned up exactly the information you were looking for (or at least some food for thought)  Have a look at :
http://blog.lostartpress.com/2014/03/17/water-vs-wood-grudge-match/
and follow the links later in the post after you have digested the theory there.

Good luck with your wood!
Ian

[Timmo]

Thanks Ian.

Very interesting.

First: I've sealed the ends now. Second, looks like cedar dries quite quickly. Could be ready to use in just a few months. The two yew planks could take a few years.

Tim.

On 17 Mar 2014, at 16:10, momist [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Timmo,

Just by chance, one of the blogs I follow has turned up exactly the information you were looking for (or at least some food for thought)  Have a look at :
http://blog.lostartpress.com/2014/03/17/water-vs-wood-grudge-match/
and follow the links later in the post after you have digested the theory there.

[Timmo]

Just thought I'd add an update.

It seems cedar dries very quickly! Took a few weeks for the second batch to arrive and the difference in weight between a plank from the stack and a newly arrived plank was very significant. Haven't put  moisture meter on it yet but it seems it will be ready to mill into strips within a couple of months of first stacking.

Plan is to cut the strips, bring them over to France where the next build will take place (so they can dry a little more) then put them over the router table to mill the cove and bead. Then they'll sit there until I have time to play.

Any suggestions for the perfect strip built comfortably stable, moderately fast, adequately manoeuvrable, easily portaged open canoe for one, or sometimes two, paddlers? Oughtred Beaver is front running at the moment but I'll enjoy considering other options.

Tim.

[AdrianG]

Excuse me, Timmo, but what's this "over to France where the next build will take place" business?!?


Kind regards
Adrian

[Timmo]

Ah, now have a home in France and we are in the process of arranging our lives in such a way that we can spend around half the year over here (in France at the moment) and half the year back in the UK. Current stay is about a month (with a few daysout in Jordan for work.) Reason for bringing timber here is because I have a barn currently in process of being made into a workshop. Not huge but more space than I've ever had before. Have moved a lot of tools here so this is where next boat build will have to be.

Will be back for Beale though!

We're south of Poitiers on the Charente Vienne border. Hope to get a French raid going one day (perhaps the Charente from Angouleme) but need to do more research.

Tim.

On 7 May 2014, at 18:33, AdrianG [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Excuse me, Timmo, but what's this "over to France where the next build will take place" business?!?


Kind regards
Adrian

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[Tomsk]

Tim

As a rare contributor I'm not known amongst your threads (and being in the North of England gatherings and raids are not an option for me).  Now I find that you want to plan a raid around my old stomping grounds in the Charente.  I spent a few happy years just north of Angouleme at St Anjou and Mansle.

That was PB (pre boat) and have no idea what the water would be like.

Good luck

Tom Stratton

On 7 May 2014 21:51, "Timmo [via UK HBBR Forum]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ah, now have a home in France and we are in the process of arranging our lives in such a way that we can spend around half the year over here (in France at the moment) and half the year back in the UK. Current stay is about a month (with a few daysout in Jordan for work.) Reason for bringing timber here is because I have a barn currently in process of being made into a workshop. Not huge but more space than I've ever had before. Have moved a lot of tools here so this is where next boat build will have to be.

Will be back for Beale though!

We're south of Poitiers on the Charente Vienne border. Hope to get a French raid going one day (perhaps the Charente from Angouleme) but need to do more research.

Tim.

On 7 May 2014, at 18:33, AdrianG [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Excuse me, Timmo, but what's this "over to France where the next build will take place" business?!?


Kind regards
Adrian

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[AdrianG]

Hi Timmo
"...now have a home in France", "...have a barn...". Man, that sounds idyllic - nice one. Well done. I look forward to hearing all the juicy details (whilst turning green).

See you soon
Adrian

[Timmo]

Thanks Adrian

We do try not to be too smug and there is a lot of work yet to be done here, but we are very happy!

See you at Beale I hope

Tim..

Hi Timmo
"...now have a home in France", "...have a barn...". Man, that sounds idyllic - nice one. Well done. I look forward to hearing all the juicy details (whilst turning green).

See you soon
Adrian