Lurking with-in-tent
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I was wondering about overnight stops with Bianca
And was going to pop this in under her story http://uk-hbbr-forum.967333.n3.nabble.com/Van-Blanc-tp4027058.html However before I could stop my twitching fingers, I had gone from the roadside to the waterways and these should stir the glowing embers: http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/roads.htm http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?35762-Is-wild-camping-allowed-in-England/page2&s=8ba6ad95e634527c4879acb3b43b25b6 As I read through I found a number of quotes that I couldn't resist - May the gentleness of morning, greet your silent passage through endless waters... May all your winds be gentle; and may it rain the night before Death is nature's way of telling you to slow down As far as I am aware the bits of law that might apply to wild camping in England would be trespass (a civil offence) and the Vagrancy Law (a criminal offence). Regarding trespass the police can do nothing unless it is aggravated trespass when it becomes a public order offence. The Vagrancy Act seems to apply to those who "cannot give a good account of themselves" which implies they do not have a permanent address. So if you have a permanent address and they catch you sleeping rough then the worst you are doing is trespassing it would seem unless of course there was some other criminal offence associated with it. Byelaws that prevent camping would make the offence criminal I think. Every action of our lives touches on some chord that will vibrate in eternity" Edwin Hubbel Chapin You don't stop playing because you are old, you get old because you stop playing. "Slowly tethering every animal, lest they hiccup. Yep, that seems to work." Along with the mess our species seems to be making of this planet, this last rang a chord with thoughts from the past - CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD Oblivious to the enormity of our insignificance A transient plague; we swarm across the surface of a speck That circles a spark, in the peripheral dust of a minor galaxy What cataclysmic arrogance, radiating the vanity of the truly ignorant Can match the momentary ego of stupid men Bent on siring vermin spawn that wreck this Earth and then Devouring nature, submerge the planet in a foetid crust Destroying all there was before and seethe in crowds, demanding more To choke, like fungal yeast, in lethal, self-made must Democracy stretched diaphanous across fat cats and power hungry politicians Crouching, hand in glove, behind the naive corrections Of petty bureaucrats, of green and good-will goons Encouraging them to tighten, softly tighten, the noose around your freedom Fit your personal history neatly inside the box provided. Do not venture outside the margins Less thought, less action, less life Lulled into sterile safety, aphids farmed by ants Pay, by credit card installment, to have your existence stolen Computer voices, on the line, answer queries, all but mine “For our customers’ personal convenience” – How reassuring Drift, vacuously enraptured, down the supermarket aisle Subliminally squeezed between towering shelves That seduce with bright-wrapped rubbish, but will not countenance escape Cloak and scythe stand ready to greet one and all at the checkout This Brave New World is not keeping score, how many years since 1984? Back to overnighting, it seems the answer is to keep a low profile And leave nothing but Paw-prints CW |
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The beauty of your words (or those quoted from others) is their inherent rightness. Truth is neither here nor there, it is the rightness of things that matters, perhaps more so as we age.
I am firmly of the view that we we should do, and encourage others to do, that which we consider right, and, with the bold assumption that we are reasonable people, blessed with sound judgement, what we choose to do shall not harm others, provided they are of a tolerant disposition. Which reminds me of a mildly unpleasant incident in Waitrose this morning. I was trying to negotiate a gap between a lady holding a basket (as if it were an item of body armour) and an individual who was clearly oblivious to all around him. I thought I had room to get past, when the individual to my right stepped back, causing my trolley to gently touch the basket of the lady wielding it as if it were a shield. It was the merest of touches, and being the person I am I immediately proffered an apology, saying "I'm most dreadfully sorry". The ungracious cow, as that is the only way now that I can reasonably describe her, laid into me with the prompt retort that the correct expression I should have used was "excuse me". I was a little rattled, but thanked her for educating me on the finer points of the English language and asked if she would be prepared to take paid employment to correct the obvious deficiencies I had in my understanding of my native tongue. To do this I had to follow her for a few steps, and we attracted a small crowd, who had, in the main. observed the incident. Suffice to say that they were, in the most part, less charitable towards her attempts to educate me than I was, and she was later seen hurrying towards the check out, looking more than a little harassed. |
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In reply to this post by Chris Waite
Well...
On the subject of 'wild camping' most of the SOP comments related to tents etc. Not stealth camping in a van. Since owning Evanna we've stopped in numerous laybys around England. Our favourites are those that were formed when roads were straightened creating a quiet and discreet loop hidden in trees. There's always the risk of parking up in some local dogging spot, but never happened yet. There's also networks of legitimate stopovers. We've stayed in pub car parks (not as bad as it sounds, great to have a meal then just go to bed!) farm shop car parks and outside theme parks. For quick stops while en-route (eg, not for the view!) you can also stay in Sainsburys car parks. The deal with them is that provided you arrive late, park discreetly, buy something and don't hang around in the morning they're quite happy. Then there are all the places truckers regularly stop to kip. Tuck yourself in among them. Worth checking out Some of those are 'membership' groups, though I've found that if you contact the stopover directly most don't care if you're a member of anything or not. That, of course, is us in our great gold campervan. In your neat and subtle Bianca you could probably park on a high street and stop overnight without anyone being any the wiser! France is, of course, blissfully welcoming of camper vans. The general rule here is that if it's legal to park, then you can park. If you choose to remain in the vehicle while it's parked that is entirely up to you, whether that be for 10 mins, or 8 hours, during the day or overnight. Simples. You must merely be parked however. Placing water bottles on the ground, or winding down steadying legs would not be permitted. Don't think we have found a dogging spot in France either. We did end up parked in a remote woodland car park above Cahors one night where we appeared to cause significant consternation to a large number of (male) drivers who would arrive, drive round, see Evanna and leave. One battered Peugeot 206 came back many times. Our conclusion, reached while staying safely behind locked doors, was they were there to deal drugs, but we didn't get out to ask. That's the campervan bit. Now that poem... Wow. Moving, impressive, thoughtful. Those positives just about managing to balance how depressing it could be. I will now continue to do my transient thing aboard this speck circling it's spark and allow myself to believe that checkout can be postponed for a long time yet! At least the spark is making this little French corner of the speck nice and warm. About 35° C at the moment. Tim.
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In reply to this post by Jeremy
Now if that's the sort of response you get in Waitrose I can't help speculating what sort of response you would get in alternative emporia such as Sainsburys, Tescos, Asda, Morrisons, Co-op, Aldi, Lidl, etc.
Clearly I'm not going to reveal any prejudices regarding what category of people frequent which store and what behaviours could be expected of them. But my brain is working on some variation of the That Was The Week That Was sketch with John Cleese, Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2k1iRD2f-c) Somewhere down the line you must transition from receiving a lesson in grammer to being physically assaulted. But I'm not sure CostCo still exists. Tim.
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This post was updated on .
One wonders
One wonders whether she actually intended to suggest that you should ask before advancing, or was simply being pedantic regarding the form of apology required for having failed to negotiate the available space to her satisfaction. Either way any apology is something to be admired and taken in the spirit in which it was provided, and yours Jeremy, was eloquent to a degree. I must be getting old as I find myself appalled at the utter self-obsessed indifference increasingly displayed by the generations that have followed mine. Row upon row of agile youngsters forcing their seniors off the pavement and the road too at times, standing in idle chatter blocking the narrowest places of our crowded island, trolleys akimbo in the stores. Lycra-louts meandering provocatively at the crown of the road; that's not riding defensively, that's ostentatious point scoring and I say that as one who cycled to the office for his last seven working years. Very, very occasionally there have been polite children; it has come as such a surprise that we make point of congratulating their parents.... Then suddenly, almost no longer than this year, some teenagers serving in shops, pubs and restaurants have shown genuine concern not only for our interest in visiting their establishments, but also for Ruthie's obvious mobility problems - a tri-wheel walking frame does make something of a statement, compare the white cane she used after her retinal detachment a few years ago - nothing, not a sausage, just surge on, nether-heading. Has the worm turned? Which reminds me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam Do you think we should get the Scottish Parliamentarian expeditionary force to vote in their Outdoor Access Code? Maybe Grum you could have a word with Nicola next time you're in that neck of the woods. Which reminds me, did you hear Ms Sturgeon's response a few weeks ago when being interviewed on that American chat show? On finding out that the Scots have oil, the host asked - "Do you mind if we invade?" Quick as a flash, she came back - "You don't normally ask!" CW |
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The subject of politeness always baffles me as it evolves. I recall as a youngster (still a student so probably 20'ish, so around 1972 or thereabouts) standing up on the tube to let what I thought was a rather tired looking older lady have my seat. She turned on me, quick as a flash saying "I'll have you know I'm not THAT OLD, young man!" and refused to take the proffered seat. I was a bit taken aback, as my parents were of that generation that taught their children to stand up when ladies entered a room, to open doors for them, offer them seats etc. At the time I suspect it was the onset of the "womens lib" movement, who for a time seemed to confuse basic polite behaviour as an affront to their sex.
Now, as some here know, I've been an avid cyclist for many years, although of late have taken very much to using bicycles with electric assistance. The behaviour of a rude and aggressive number of cyclists (inevitably "Lycras") has been getting increasingly obnoxious lately, as there seem to be a large number who ignore the law and the Highway Code, ride on pavements at speed, cycle through red lights and physically hit cars if they feel slighted by them in some way. For a while last year I had a perfect ruse for dealing with them Following some minor surgery I was issued with a nice, light weight aluminium walking stick. It was an excellent portable barricade that could be deployed when the alarm calls of the pavement cyclists could be heard approaching quickly from behind. Only once did this actually cause a confrontation, with a very rude and aggressive young man. I asked him when he'd taken his Cycling Proficiency Test. This stumped him for a moment, so I then asked if he'd read and understood Section 72 of the Highways Act 1835. At this point we had gathered a few onlookers and it was clear that the chap hadn't a clue about the law, so I politely asked that he stop breaking the law and move himself and his bicycle to the adjacent road unless he wanted me to arrest him and request that the police deal with the matter. Several others also made the point to him that he was breaking the law just by riding on the pavement, so I just added that he should consider himself lucky that he'd been prevented from committing a more serious offence, such as an offence coming under the Offences against the Person Act 1861 or perhaps criminal negligence, should he injure someone by his unlawful behaviour. The interesting point was that this chap clearly seemed to believe that he was allowed to ride at speed on a footpath or pavement. No one, it seems, had ever pointed out to him that it was an offence. I think it was drummed into my thick skull at primary school, when we were all given cycling lessons after hours and then took our Cycling Proficiency Test, which was a mandatory requirement before the school would allow pupils to ride bicycles to school. I still have my little triangular badge somewhere. I must dig it out and start wearing it again. I must say that I hadn't really noticed any improvement in politeness from younger people serving in shops, pubs etc. Perhaps I need to mature for a few more years before that phenomenon starts to exhibit itself. |
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In reply to this post by Chris Waite
So much ammunition, so little time. On Teenagers. If the only teenagers you ever meet are standing on street corners, then it seems all teenagers ever do is stand on street corners. There are approx 750,000 children in each year group in the UK which means there are approx 5.250 million teenagers in the UK. ever wonder what the rest are doing? Getting criticised for spending so much time in their rooms. On Cyclists. I cycle, I wear Lycra, I ride defensively, I am courteous to pedestrians and always give them right of way. If all arrogant cyclists wear Lycra it doesn't follow that all Lycra wearing cyclists are arrogant. On Wild Camping in Campervans, I thought supermarket car parks were where Teenagers in Cars gather to socialise and burn doughnuts, wouldn't catch me trying to camp over night in one. Far too wild. Ditto remote carparks with heavy traffic after dark. I’d have been sliding out of there pretty quick. On politeness. I stopped being deferential to women when they started wearing dungarees. I give up seats and hold doors for the elderly or infirm or people with small children, especially in buggies. On Rightness. Our sense of rightness is built on a combination of upbringing, education, life experience, religion and any number of other factors. My rightness might differ very slightly from the next guy, and so on until eventually some people’s rightness might be diametrically opposed to mine but still held with the same level of conviction. e.g. U.S. gun laws, Death Penalties, or the urge to invade countries who have oil or have been foolish enough to allow oil pipelines to run through their country. What happens when opposing rightnesses collide? Well that depends whether one of us is prepared to be just a little less right for a while, or not. Y’all have a nice day now. On Life the Universe and All That. I wholly agree with CW that we need to be reminded constantly of our insignificance. Carl Sagan’s Cosmos should be in the national curriculum. We know our star will go out, finding another one should be our only priority. If you can’t help please keep out of the way. I am disappointed to look back on my generation's tenure and find we didn’t end war, didn’t cure hunger, didn't stop polluting the planet. We just made it much worse for the generations to follow. No wonder they don't respect us. Then I ask myself what I did to make things better, and I have to admit the answer is not much, so I shouldn’t complain then. Sent from Windows Mail One wonders
One wonders whether she actually intended to suggest that you should ask before advancing, or was simply being pedantic regarding the form of apology required for having failed to negotiate the available space to her satisfaction. Either way any apology is something to be admired and taken in the spirit in which it was provided, and yours Jeremy, was eloquent to a degree. I must be getting old as I find myself appalled at the utter self-obsessed indifference increasingly displayed by the generations that have followed mine. Row upon row of agile youngsters forcing their seniors off the pavement and the road too at times, standing in idle chatter blocking the narrowest places of our crowded island, trolleys akimbo in the stores. Lycra-louts meandering provocatively at the crown of the road; that's not riding defensively, that's ostentatious point scoring and I say that as one who cycled to the office for his last seven working years. Very, very occasionally there have been polite children; it has come as such a surprise that we make point of congratulating their parents.... Then suddenly, almost no longer than this year, some teenagers serving in shops, pubs and restaurants have shown genuine concern not only for our interest in visiting their establishments, but also for Ruthie's obvious mobility problems - a tri-wheel walking frame does make something of a statement, compare the white cane she used after her retinal detachment a few years ago - nothing, not a sausage, just surge on, nether-heading. Has the worm turned? Which reminds me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam Do you think we should get the Scottish Parliamentarian expeditionary force to vote in their Outdoor Access Code? Maybe Grum you could have a word with Nicola next time he's in that neck of the woods. Which reminds me, did you hear Ms Sturgeon's response a few weeks ago when being interviewed on that American chat show? On finding out that the Scots have oil, the host asked - "Do you mind if we invade?" Quick as a flash, she came back - "You don't normally ask!" CW If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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In reply to this post by Jeremy
Having returned in 1994 from the good old USA, with excellent customer service, I tended to get a bit grumpy with the average shop. However I think behaviour has slowly improved the last 20 years and I have met quiet a few polite younger people.
I always take a positive cheerful lead in many situations, I think that tends to bring out the best in people. Throw in a quick "sorry mate" when things go 51%/49% and that tends to make the day flow well. Collecting video evidence by an action cam is probably worth its weight in gold. Driving up the M5 last week, if I had an action cam I could have clocked a 4x4: 1 Exceeding 70mph by flashing past me in the outside lane 2 He was towing a long trailer! 3 He followed the preceding car much closer than the 2 second interval in HC That's potentially 9 points. I must buy a car cam...... cheers Paul |
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At the risk of seriously de-railing this thread, I can say that dash board cameras are worth their weight in gold. I had one fitted to my old Prius, just a cheap (less than £30) ebay one, and I'd forgotten it was there when that car was written off in an accident this time last year.
In brief, I slowed to a stop behind a car turning right and very shortly after I'd stopped, a Fiat Punto, driven at around 40 mph (according to the police accident investigator) drove straight into the back of me, shunting my car forward (against it's brakes) into the back of an Amazon 4 x 4. Thankfully no one was hurt, but the lady driving the Fiat was taken to hospital, as her car was badly damaged and the airbags had all deployed (a good testament as to the safety of modern cars). At the time of the accident she'd admitted to having been distracted by something rattling in her handbag on the passenger seat, and was trying to find it. When she looked up, she saw my car dead ahead. According to the police evidence, she applied the brakes 1m from the rear of my car. As often happens, as soon as the insurers became involved, the lady driving the Fiat changed her story, and claimed that I hadn't come to a stop, that she had not seen any brake lights from my car and so had no idea I was stationary. By chance I'd taken photos of my car being loaded onto the recovery truck, and one clearly showed that both brake lights were still working after the accident (brilliant things LEDs, near indestructible). I also remembered the dash cam, so went to the compound where my car was being held and recovered the memory card. The video is here, and clearly shows me coming to a controlled stop, followed very quickly by being hit up the rear by the Fiat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duJu0jZPMhU Once I sent a copy of that video to my insurance loss adjuster, he passed it to the Fiat owners insurer and then called me back to say that her insurers had accepted full liability and an equivalent hire car to mine would be delivered to my house within the hour, at their cost. He said that he'd never ever, had another insurance company roll over and accept liability so quickly, and suggested that dash cams should be mandatory for all new cars. Needless to say, the very first thing I fitted to my new replacement Plug-in Prius was a new, full HD, dash cam. So far all it has recorded are examples of gross stupidity (like the daft lady I see most mornings who tows two small children behind in a bicycle trailer, adapted with string and bungee cords to the back of her motor scooter). |
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