The build of the illegal dinghy (Iceni 11)

[Chris Waite]

Quick as a flash

Here I am again and I agree with Graham's great mind.  It depends which you want; you could squeeze a tad more power out of a carefully tuned and roached sprit, but at a considerable cost in convenience of use.  The balance-lug has to be the simplest handiest sail for a small dinghy - it is just so easy.  I do get the feeling that the sprit was more to be left standing and brailled rather than lowered.  Not only does it present problems with lowering, it is impossibly complicated to reef.  Also any roach means battens and battens mean bad behaviour when trying to furl; unless of course you're a junky or fully and tracked and tracked means cars and/or at least a slot and....  

Oh, slip me a slug from a real balance-lug

Cee Dubbaya

[Timmo]

It's so good to have the alternately wise, entertaining and occasionally bizarre contributions of the great CW back on my screen.

Welcome back from the colonies, do they still prosper?

Tim

On 18 Oct 2011, at 17:31, Chris Waite [via UK HBBR Forum] wrote:

> Oh, slip me a slug from a real balance-lug
>
> Cee Dubbaya

[Port-Na-Storm]

Chris Waite wrote

unless of course you're a junky or fully and tracked and tracked means cars and/or at least a slot and....  

Oh, slip me a slug from a real balance-lug

Cee Dubbaya

 He's back! and he puts it so much more eloquently than I ever could.

[Chris Waite]

The Colonies do still prosper

To prove it I am up to the gunwales in alcohol, seafood and steak and have heard more family reminisences from Clan Ganderton (that of my Missus), than you could decently shake a hairy stick at.

"Slip me a slug"?  http://youtu.be/pULXnVTRynY

Listen to the words - I'm sure that girl says "lug"

CW

[Anders]

Thanks for your replys.

I knew what I would get when posted those sailplans. This is a UK based forum and that means lugsails rule. I will think things over and I might follow your advices.

A few comments on your replyes:

*Reefing a sprit is not that bad.. Its a matter of lowering where the snotter is attached to the mast. Loosen halyard, lower snotter, put in the quick reefs (1 or 2 lines) tighten halyard and downhall and tighten snotter.
The sprit sail will have a better shape when reefed because its not as wide.
A question to users of 11´dinks: How often do you reef when you´re out there? or do you reef before going out there? I´ve never sailed a dinghy with reefing points. Only racers like Optimist, OK, Europe, Laser, 420 and 505.

* The sprit is same length as the mast and they fit into the hull. The mast is slightly shorter than the mast of the lugger.

When striking the sail, you lower the sprit and take mast, boom and sail down. end of boom goes to end of mast.

I have a feeling that the lug is easyer, but that in practical where I´ll be sailing, it wont be much change. My other feeling is that the sprit´ll be a better sail shape and more fun to sail. I´m an ex racer and I love controling sail shape.
Also, Whats the price for a 64 sqf lug sail in the UK?

And I learned to sail in an Optimist dinghy some 40 years ago and the sprit sail from Neil Pride is big optimist sail.

[momist]

Hi Anders,

My 'dink' is only 7' 11", so is probably not relevant to your question, although it uses a standing lug.  However, being so small, she has very little directional stability if the sail is tampered with while it's up, and therefore I always have to lower it entirely to put in or take out the reef.  I have one reef which consists of cringles in the luff and leech which tie down to the tack and outhaul.  No reef points needed on such a small sail.  I should think that the same consideration about what the dinghy will do while you mess around with the reef means that this is true even at 11 foot.  Reefing under way, or hove to, is for bigger boats.
I have very rarely tied in a reef while out on the water, usually instead heading for shelter or waiting out the gust.  I regularly take out a reef I started with though, after my confidence has increased, especially near the start of the season.

I have long since tired of my very easy to use standing lug, and often wondered about trying out a sprit sail on her.  Maybe I really should!

Ian

[Anders]

Your thoughts are more or less mine. Small dinghys are very unstable when you go forward to the mast. Especially if they have a sharp entry and a deep forefoot like the Iceni 11. Reefing could be done, but it would have to be sheltered waters.

[Anders]

More photos. (I like photos)

Outer stem, keel, bilge runners, outwale and rubbing strake glued on and hull turned around. This with turning the hull first time and seeing it the right way up is always something really exiting. Maybe the most exiting part of the build. I like it. A little, fat and tubby dinghy. Its small, but I think it´ll be comfortable and fun.

[Anders]

I finally decided on the sail for my dink. Here you have it. Its slightly revised from the first balanced lug. 60skf. Thats what Tom Dunderdale adviced me.

[BrianP]

That looks very nice Anders. If you would like please send me the angle of the yard to the luff and the diagonal lengths, plus what panel width you want, I will send if a set of panel drawings from SailCut4 for you to make the sail. I have a lug sail design all set up for the Scows, depth, twist, roach or hollow if no battens, on the leach etc and just adjust the numbers to create all the panels and their xy plots to cut it out.

Brian

[Anders]

Thanks Brian.
But I have already ordered the sail.

[Anders]

I´ve started walking around the interior... Lots of thinking and not so much building. Its nice.

 

[Anders]

And here you have 2 photos of my intentions of stowing the oars, so that they are not in the way when sailing. The dink will have side benches. I´m sure that it´ll work. bad point is that it looses some bouyancy and it doesnt have to much.

[Anders]

2 more interior photos.

I´ve made 2 small bouyancy tanks and fixed side seats. The seats are not glued yet. I need to epoxy the tanks first.
Comments are welcome.

[Michael Rogers]

Anders

I hope 2012 is a rewarding year for you especially. Thank you for sharing your 'therapy' with all of us, it has been inspirational. She is a lovely little boat, and I'm sure will have lots of character. I hope the rig is successful (I really do!).

On the musical instrument front (the flamenco guitars look stunning: the extra rose on the shoulder is interesting), have you ever considered doing something completely different - like a smallish knee harp??!

Michael

[Anders]

A knee harp... I´ve never hear of thing like that before. Is it something like this one (12 strings)


It sure is pretty and I like Celtic harp music. Well, I really like irish music in general.

It would also look good in the bow of my next build.
The extra rose on the upper bout of my guitars are called soundports

[Michael Rogers]

Anders

(Apologies for delay in replying.) Yes, just like that. Knee harp just means you balance it on your lap, rather than on the floor or a stool, while playing. The one you've conjoured up (where from?) actually has 30 strings, which gives quite a good range - a bit lacking in bass of course, for which you would need a bigger job, probably standing on the floor. It also has semitone levers, which makes tuning for different keys easier. For my taste it is a bit over-decorated: leaving the celtic twiddles off behind the tuning pins and semitone levers make it look less cluttered. I can't play one, but would like to learn (and to sing along), on a craftsman made instrument - which I probably couldn't afford anyway! Dream on, Rogers. There is a tenuous boat-building connection in that I saw a photo somewhere of Ian Oughtred, presumably in his Scottish lair, with a beautiful little harp he had made himself on his knee.

[Anders]

Michael.

You can get some kits for these things.
Simple one:
http://www.earlymusicshop.com/product.aspx/en-GB/1000600-ems-19-string-knee-harp-kit

more advanced one:
<a href="http://">http://www.earlymusicshop.com/product.aspx/en-GB/1000650-ems-round-back-harp-kit-19-strings-with-semitones

 I dont think its very complicated. You can also buy plans for them and build from scratch. If you can build a boat, you can build a knee harp. And I agree, to much decorations.

Maybe we can get together when I´ve finished my violin and play some O´Carolan tunes.

[Michael Rogers]

Thanks for the links, Anders. Now why didn't I think of that - I know the EMS, just didn't think of it in this context. I might just swing this kit idea in terms of an upcoming (well, June actually) birthday present.

My brother plays the violin (seconds in the orchestra of the school he used to teach at). His instrument was made by a railway signalman - the sort of guy who was on a rural branch line in the old days, with two trains a day to deal with and needing something to do between times. I'll ask him (my bro, that is) if he has any more information about that. The equivalent, I suppose, of the knitting skills acquired by lighthouse keepers, again in the old days (nostalgic sigh).

[Anders]

This with being a railway signal man.... wow, that sounds good. 2 trains a day. I think I could do that.
 In many ways we´ve totally screwed up our world. Now everyone has to be stressed and busy. Untill now, I´ve been able to stay a bit on the side line but for how long? Its getting more and more difficult.

The violin should be finished soon. Its just a cheap gluetogether kit that I´ll try to turn into a decent fiddle. With respect of the kit harps, I dont know anything about their quality and maybe the best would be a buying a plan. But on the other hand the kits are cheap and you´ll be playing something without to much struggle.

There´s a plan at luth.org Besides tuning all the strings, I dont think its a very complicated project.