Waterlust

[mrpsmith77]

I get along quite well with my Hobie Mirage Outback canoe but have failed to find a way of turning it into a sailing boat. So I've been looking at https://www.fyneboatkits.co.uk/kits/sailing/waterlust-sailing-canoe/ with a view to fitting my mirage drive to it. Not being a competent boatbuilder I thought I'd order the hull kit first as a lockdown project. Assuming I manage to fit it together properly I would then add the sailing kit and probably the outriggers. I know this boat is sort of similar to Graham's boat so wondered about how feasible sleeping aboard would be and also how essential are the outriggers? And any other comments on the design?

[Rob Blackburn]

Well for my two bob's worth it is a cracker and I would love one.

I believe from memory you can sleep on the floor. Very clever design.

R

[Port-Na-Storm]

Hi Mark,
I think you definitely need to do this.
As Rob says the Waterlust looks like a really well thought out boat. Cheasapeake know what they are doing and I hear good things about Fyne Boat Kits so you'll get good support from them.
And of course all the people on here will cheer you on.

From what I've seen I'd guess that The Waterlust is a couple of dress sizes bigger than Katie Beardie, a bit more beam and fuller in the ends. So she'll be quite stable especially for someone used to blasting round Hayling Island in his Comet.

The blurb says there is room to sleep in the cockpit, I can't imagine there's much room but I've seen the size of your tent so I imagine it will seem like a huge state room. I wouldn't fancy sleeping on board on the water unless it was tied tightly to something very solid, and the amas won't add any initial stability so maybe better to pull it up on dry land.

Anyway it looks like a great project, well done, look forward to seeing the build photos and the finished boat at Cobnor.

Regards
Graham.

[Paul H (admin)]

A nice design, but eye watering prices.

Paul Fisher has a wide range of canoe designs and good support. I have considered building his Woodland 15ft x 36" sailing canoe:



https://www.selway-fisher.com/Canoes.htm


To generate confidence and understand the building sequence, I recommend a beginner to get plans and build a 1:10th scale model with cardboard and Sellotape.  

We have a week or two of bitterly cold weather ahead of us, so cut up the Weetabix boxes and have a go! It might keep the grandkids happy :-)

-Paul

[inwe]

Go with it Mark. Looks like fun. I made CLC's Shearwater very good plans, leaves very little to go wrong. Good luck can't wait to see your progress.

Richard

[Chris Waite]

Some things to think about, Mark -

1.  If a canoe is wide enough to sleep aboard, then it is probably too wide to paddle - particularly with a kayak-type double blade.

2.  Katie Beardie that Graham and I designed for him is deliberately about as wide as you can get and still paddle thus.  This also happens to be about as much as you can squeeze out of two ply sheets for the hull; not decks or other aspects, just the 'shell' -

 

3. Amas (floats) get in the way badly and a lot, if you are considering coming alongside anything to board, or sleep, or any such activity.  The more I've thought about this the worse it gets....

4.  If you want to make a narrow something stable enough to sleep in, then lashing a suitably large fender, each side, outboard amidships is a possible option though it will take some organization, (for instance strops under the hull), to stop them riding up and losing precious immersed buoyancy.  After taking 3. above into consideration, such fenders could be located under the 'ama' struts.  I have a narrow camping/rowing skiff in mind that will have short (6" to 9") hinging outriggers for the rowlocks and I intend to carry such fenders to mount under these, so as not to have falling out of the boat ruin my slumbers.  The only problem with two large fenders is that you have to have two large fenders aboard.

Like your intention to use the Mirage Drive, I would be setting my skiff up to take advantage of a pedal yuloh

5.  If you want a very simple build like Katie Beardie, but to your own specification, I would be happy to draw you up something that will look a lot like her, but with you sailing along, then sleeping aboard in mind.  No promises of course as I am a rank amatueur, but none of the half dozen or so hulls I have come up with so far have been a complete disaster and some seem almost like the real thing....

I'll leave that tooth-sucking option in mid-air where it belongs; actually probably best accidentally slipped behind the sofa.

Am I allowed to slip-in a repeat of a limerick; the Ode to Katie Beardie?

When designing a Scotsman's canoe
Using ply with epoxy for glue
Make it no more broad
Than a fine Claymore sword
But a point at the other end too

Chris
 

 

[LASER41420]

Or maybe just build a camping/rowing/sailing skiff design to get over the stability problem.
If you are going to sleep on board you might as well be comfortable.
Steve

[Rob Blackburn]

Watching the Waterlust canoe in action though it really has some sort of 'special vibe' about it to me. It sort of sits on the water.

I really reckon it is a cracker.

R

[Grldtnr]

As lurking Virgin boatbuilder, thought I'd jump in this discussion.
Are there any merits on strip plank construction? As I see it , from internet video to my mind it is a simpler construction method, notwithstanding sourcing the strip plank, which needs to be milled with a bead/cove, but that could be overcome by a natural edge ,which then has to filled with epoxy.
Which leads me onto, glueing the edges, a foaming glue that is moisture cured, ( gorilla glue) is easier than using epoxy,and less wastefull, also because the technique uses staples to fix the strips whilst glue cures, loads of clamps don't need to be bought.
It's perhaps anathema to build this way ,most seem to delight in torturing ply to a desired shape, but I think it may be an easier method of construction.

The biggest problem for me is a build space to do it,it's possible I could build in my hall,but I will still need to extract the resultant mass/mess out through a standard front door, so nothing bigger than a Canoe for me.

[Port-Na-Storm]

Dear Lurker,

If we are going to discuss the relative merit of the various building methods, then we will be hear till Lockdown ends, and will have totally swamped Mark's thread. It's probably one of those subjects where, everyone has their favourite, everybody is right, and nobody agrees, however I can tell you that glued clinker ply is the best, the cheapest, and the easiest way to get good results. 😎

Better start a new thread.

Graham.

Sent from my Xperia by Sony smartphone

---- Grldtnr [via UK HBBR Forum] wrote ----

As lurking Virgin boatbuilder, thought I'd jump in this discussion.
Are there any merits on strip plank construction? As I see it , from internet video to my mind it is a simpler construction method, notwithstanding sourcing the strip plank, which needs to be milled with a bead/cove, but that could be overcome by a natural edge ,which then has to filled with epoxy.
Which leads me onto, glueing the edges, a foaming glue that is moisture cured, ( gorilla glue) is easier than using epoxy,and less wastefull, also because the technique uses staples to fix the strips whilst glue cures, loads of clamps don't need to be bought.
It's perhaps anathema to build this way ,most seem to delight in torturing ply to a desired shape, but I think it may be an easier method of construction.

The biggest problem for me is a build space to do it,it's possible I could build in my hall,but I will still need to extract the resultant mass/mess out through a standard front door, so nothing bigger than a Canoe for me.

---

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[Paul H (admin)]

Grldtnr wrote

 a foaming glue that is moisture cured, ( gorilla glue) is easier than using epoxy

That's true, but foaming glues don't fill gaps well and I've seen joints crack.
They are only strong when clamped with a thin gap - like laminated construction.

Epoxy is forgiving, fills any gap and cures very strong after about a week.


Regarding clinker ply, it requires skill to create and fit the planks. If you are an experienced woodworker with an eye for detail go for it.

Stitch and tape is beginner friendly.

Paul

[Grldtnr]

The answer is practice,do small projects, like scale models, in techniques.
I will shut up now ,and go back to my bin, hibernate till I have something germane to say.
Bye ,for now!

[mrpsmith77]

Thanks for the helpful comments - I now have some more comments and questions:- I asked Fyne about the outriggers and got this from them:- "The outriggers are a new invention and most people do not have them. They are an easy retrofit. They are a good training device to help prevent a capsize and are not there to increase sail carrying or turning it into a trimaran. They are more a stabiliser on a bike, rather than a 3 wheel trike." Many thanks to Chris for very kindly offering to draw something up for me. If I had been a bit more confident about actually building a boat I would have jumped at the offer but the idea of a kit supplied with all the bits means, I hope, that I'm less likely to make silly mistakes. If I lived nearer the South Coast it might have been different if local help and advice was available. Could Graham give dimensions (and weight and sail area if known of KB). I've been comparing the Waterlust with my other boats (Hobie,Comet,Miracle,Wayfarer) and don't want anything I can't easily manhandle ashore. Also I'm trying to remember what sort of trailer KB sits on? Both my canoe and my comet will fit on my roofrack but I think the Waterlust would be too big for that. On which subject (handling ashore) all my other boats are plastic. Not having a garage I'm planning on a small shelter on my drive for the construction. But I'm getting worried about winter storage. Is leaving the Waterlust upside down for the winter a bad idea. The Hostellers used to leave their Wayfarers upside down like this but we ended up having to replace the plywood deck strengthening. Cheers, Mark.

[mrpsmith77]

Replying again - hope it won't forget my formatting this time Thanks for the helpful comments - I now have some more comments and questions:- I asked Fyne about the outriggers and got this from them:- "The outriggers are a new invention and most people do not have them. They are an easy retrofit. They are a good training device to help prevent a capsize and are not there to increase sail carrying or turning it into a trimaran. They are more a stabiliser on a bike, rather than a 3 wheel trike." Many thanks to Chris for very kindly offering to draw something up for me. If I had been a bit more confident about actually building a boat I would have jumped at the offer but the idea of a kit supplied with all the bits means, I hope, that I'm less likely to make silly mistakes. If I lived nearer the South Coast it might have been different if local help and advice was available. Could Graham give dimensions (and weight and sail area if known of KB). I've been comparing the Waterlust with my other boats (Hobie,Comet,Miracle,Wayfarer) and don't want anything I can't easily manhandle ashore. Also I'm trying to remember what sort of trailer KB sits on? Both my canoe and my comet will fit on my roofrack but I think the Waterlust would be too big for that. On which subject (handling ashore) all my other boats are plastic. Not having a garage I'm planning on a small shelter on my drive for the construction. But I'm getting worried about winter storage. Is leaving the Waterlust upside down for the winter a bad idea. The Hostellers used to leave their Wayfarers upside down like this but we ended up having to replace the plywood deck strengthening. Cheers, Mark.

[mrpsmith77]

One last go at getting format right...It always comes out ok when I preview it...
Thanks for the helpful comments - I now have some more comments and questions:-

I asked Fyne about the outriggers and got this from them:- "The outriggers are a new invention and most people do not have them. They are an easy retrofit. They are a good training device to help prevent a capsize and are not there to increase sail carrying or turning it into a trimaran. They are more a stabiliser on a bike, rather than a 3 wheel trike."

Many thanks to Chris for very kindly offering to draw something up for me. If I had been a bit more confident about actually building a boat I would have jumped at the offer but the idea of a kit supplied with all the bits means, I hope, that I'm less likely to make silly mistakes. If I lived nearer the South Coast it might have been different if local help and advice was available.

Could Graham give dimensions (and weight and sail area if known of KB). I've been comparing the Waterlust with my other boats (Hobie,Comet,Miracle,Wayfarer) and don't want anything I can't easily manhandle ashore. Also I'm trying to remember what sort of trailer KB sits on? Both my canoe and my comet will fit on my roofrack but I think the Waterlust would be too big for that.

On which subject (handling ashore) all my other boats are plastic. Not having a garage I'm planning on a small shelter on my drive for the construction. But I'm getting worried about winter storage. Is leaving the Waterlust upside down for the winter a bad idea. The Hostellers used to leave their Wayfarers upside down like this but we ended up having to replace the plywood deck strengthening.

Cheers,
Mark.

[GregHBBR]

hope it won't forget my formatting this time

This forum's editor is plain text only. Any formatting created in a word processor will be lost when pasted here.

If you want to use an external editor use Windows' Notepad or similar text editor. Put simply, the only formatting accepted here are carriage returns.

Alternatively, check the "Message is in HTML format, and include the appropriate tags in what you type.

[Port-Na-Storm]

Hi Mark,
A few quick pictures if I can find them.



This is Polythene Pam on my A Class Merc. Just to prove what you can get away with.
sticks out at both ends and steady as a rock doing 70 mph, be careful overtaking big lorries.

This is Katie Beardie on my Volvo, you will notice she is pulled forward over the bonnet to reduce the overhang to legally acceptable limits.



I have a V shaped cradle to stop her twisting in a cross-wind.
It was just possible for me to get her up there on my own. Getting her off was slightly easier but not much.
I used her little trolley upside down at the back of the roof to roll her back and forward.
She is too bulky and heavy to lift cleanly on your own. Its a case of lifting one end at a time and sliding, a bit like you getting the Comet on top of the car I would imagine.  

There was no way she was going on the van, mainly because of the Pop Top. So she had to go on the trailer.  
This is the road base for the Heron's combi set up.  
The Heron stays home on her launch trolley while Katie goes sailing.  
You will notice the extension bar which is 40mm square section which slides neatly inside the 50mm section of the trailer.



For Comparison, Katie is 15' 6" long give or take and about 30" wide.

This photo should give you an idea of her girth.



The sail area is about 3 square meters when everything is unrolled.
She really is quite stable.



The Amas (floats) are definitely not "trainer wheels" they are there to provide stability and safety, and to allow me to increase sail area in the future.  
They are about five feet long and were designed so that I should just be able to sink one with my full weight so I can right her if the worst happens.



I can send you a copy of the plans for these if you wanted to tip your toe into the scratch build swamp.

I notice a couple of people on the DCA Zoom meeting talking about owning the Waterlust, and saying good things. It might be worth starting a thread on there and asking around.

Cheers
Graham.

[LASER41420]

Hi,

Couple of options on the storage front, either a well supported flat cover to stop any water getting inside or an open sided boat shelter that will allow good ventilation but keep the rain out.

My 57 year old Mermaid dinghy has got by for the last 26 years with the former and I know several people who use the latter option for all wood mirror dinghy's.

Steve

[Jason Mayer]

Mark

I can definitely vouch for doing a 1:10 scale model from balsa sheet.  I found all sorts of little tricks in the marking out of the plywood panels from the plans and without the model to understand the order of work (and to make me scratch my head and wonder why the model looked too low at the back (as highlighted by Paul) only to discover I mis-read the plans....) I would have stuffed 2 expensive sheets of plywood.  

I have been totally amazed at the ease of stitch and glue construction, it's really cool if the panels are cut really accurately.  With care and attention you'll manage I'm sure.



Jason

[mrpsmith77]

Thanks to all who commented. Three large (and worryingly heavy!) parcels of wooden parts arrived this week together with lots of epoxy. At the moment I'm at the "try to understand the plans" stage and making a list of questions to ask Fyne Boats next week. I also suspect it's a good idea to wait for warmer weather as I'll be doing most of the build outdoors. Fingers firmly crossed! Mark.
PS to Graham, Would like to take you up on plans for Amas.