What's really happening down at Port-Na-Storm

[Port-Na-Storm]

First there were two sheets of ply and a bendy stick.  



and a Japanese pull saw


which after a while resulted in this

[Port-Na-Storm]

The continuing story of Katie Beardie.

And then a miracle happened !!

Well no its a long story which many here have already heard, but in order to bring the story up to date I'm required to confess the truth. Well maybe some of the truth if not all, just enough to keep me honest.  

When it was stitched together the hull looked like a hump backed whale.



Not good at all! A panic e-mail to Cee Dubbs brought a reply within minutes. I'd cut the forefoot on the wrong side of the planks and was now trying to stitch the plank upside down. Doh......................

This


should have looked like this



Righto, start again, and away we go. This time it all want a bit more according to plan except for the bit where it didn't, which is why the after parts are an inch or so narrower than Cee Dubbs intended but eventually the hull came together and I launched her at Tewkesbury just to make sure she floated to her lines.


Once we'd confirmed where the ballast was going to sit I could start working out where all the other bits should go.
More later.......................

[Port-Na-Storm]

After Frogsider reported the total failure of his rudder, I had another look at the centreboard and rudder for Katie and after a chat with Cee Dubbs we decided that they weren't going to be up to the job.

The original c/b was made from a piece of 9mm I had lying around so a piece of Alec Jordan's 4.5mm packing case was pressed into service and sandwiched up to make something around 13/14mm. This also gave the opportunity of carving some shape into the board.



The case was cut open and widened to suit, then epoxied in place .



The rudder was also beefed up and re-shaped to match the C/B



Making it up as you go along seems to require making everything twice.

G.



 

[Anders]

It looks good. Vary racy centerboard and daggerboard.

Reading forums like this one helps you to only do things once. I bought a piece of 15mm for the centerboard and rudder of my Iceni 11 after reading Frogsiders post. So it was indeed a very positive post.

Do you have a photo of the inside of the rudder. I could use some imspiration. Up and downhauls etc. I´m very curious on what you´re going to do with the missing horn on the daggerboard.

[Port-Na-Storm]

Hi Anders,
I didn't take any photos of the rudder stock before I glued it together so here is the next best thing.


The spacers which keep the two sides of the stock apart look like this, leaving a slot for the downhaul.
I've decided that I need a downhaul but I'll use the buoyancy of the blade and possibly a little help from the mud to let it float up. Maybe some shock cord will be involved too.



The downhaul line  has to exit through the top to allow the yoke to work. One of the many downsides to sailing canoes is that you can't really move around much and everything has to be controlled by lines.  



The downhaul will run forward, through a couple of eyes to a cleat where I can reach it.

On the Coot Dinghy things are sightly more complicated, and in my opinion it's a bit over engineered but it does all seem to work ok. Again sorry no photos but you'll get the jist from this.



There is both a downhaul and an uphaul. Both lines run under the tiller into the stock, round two sheaves, and down to either the leading edge or trailing edge of the blade.  So there is an extra slot in the stock for the uphaul.

There are of course lots of different solutions to this problem maybe others will have better ideas (hint)

The horn on the centreboard will be replaced with a smaller version which points vertically.

Cheers Graham

[Anders]

Thanks Graham
The photos explain things very well.
I was thinking of doing the simple version like on your canoe and use a piece of shock cord for the downhaul. Do you think that it´ll be ok or should I complicate life and make an uphaul as well?

[Timmo]

Sorry to butt in, but if you want the really simple life you could go for an aluminium rudder blade on a free pivot. It drops under gravity and lifts when it hits something. Works pretty well. Only slight drawback is if you are trying to back up in shallow water but it's a small price to pay for no uphaul/downhaul lines, guides, cleats etc.That's an advantage in a canoe where you have to bring the control lines well forward because you can't reach the stern to operate them in situ.

Mind you, if I can invent (or copy) an uphaul system that's neat and simple and operable from my seat I may be tempted!

Tim.

On 23 Oct 2011, at 08:51, Anders [via UK HBBR Forum] wrote:

I was thinking of doing the simple version like on your canoe and use a piece of shock cord for the downhaul. Do you think that it´ll be ok or should I complicate life and make an uphaul as well?

[Port-Na-Storm]

Butt away Tim please do. The more opinions the better.
This is the arrangement on Polythene Pam.



The extreme rake on the stern is a disadvantage as the rudder has a habit of collecting branches and weed.  It also means that I have to release the tension on the steering lines before lifting the rudder.

Anders, I think having an uphaul depends a lot on where you sail, or more particularly where and how you launch and recover. without an uphaul you will have to wait until you are in deep enough water before mounting your rudder, in which case you might just as well have a fixed blade like this.



I like to be able to keep the rudder up out of the way while launching and recovering.



This is the coot, and here is another fine example on a Tammie Norrie.

[Anders]

"without an uphaul you will have to wait until you are in deep enough water before mounting your rudder,."

Of course. You´re right. Uphaul it´ll have. The rudder on the Tammi Norrie looks simpler than your Coot

[Port-Na-Storm]

Yup, there is definitely something to be said for keeping everything simple, and out in the open where it can be adjusted and repaired as necessary.

[Chris Waite]

Guys

As some of you know, I have bungy working on an over-centre principle that holds the rudder blade on 'Rosie Mae' either up or down and requires a hand over the stern to push it down when starting and any time it gets knocked up by anything.  The elastic is held in tension with a toggle over a hook so that it can be released when not in use.  Dead simple, but you do need to be able to lean over the stern and you do get a wet wrist.

For 'Polly Wee'  who is currently due to have a stern deck and a deeper transom, I was thinking of going the over-centre bungy way again, but having it on a line to a cleat on the tiller, this line then continuing back down as a down haul.

Advantages?

1.  Tighten the bungy line on starting and cleat it so that it is under tension - blade up.
2.  'Haul' the blade down over-centre.
3.  There is no need to make this off as it is now 'down' under bungy tension.
4.  If it hits anything solid it will knock up over-centre on the bungy.
5.  If you want to clear weed, release the bungy tension and the blade will float up; (ply floats, innit?)
6.  Re-apply bungy tension and 'haul' down again.
7.  Release bungy tension on approaching the beach; you can re-apply if you want it held 'up' for trolleying.

"Taaraa!"

Sort of thingish?

Cee Dubbaya

[Paul H (admin)]

I've never had much success with bungy - on Tigger(Mirror) I will try the auto-release camcleat that Phil Ox uses on his rudder down-haul:

http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_details.asp?theid2=78

-Paul

[alopenboat]

On 23 Oct 2011 at 10:42, adminHBBR [via UK HBBR Forum] wrote:

>
>
> I've never had much success with bungy - on /Tigger/(Mirror) I will
> try the auto-release camcleat that Phil Ox uses on his rudder
> down-haul:
>

Anyone had any experience with surgical tubing? I seem to remember it
is supposed to be more consistent elastically than bungy.

Any idea where to get small quantities? Is it the stuff they use on
spear guns?

--
Hoping for calm nights

Alastair Law,      
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>          

[Port-Na-Storm]

alopenboat wrote

Anyone had any experience with surgical tubing?

Wrong forum Al!

[Chris Waite]

Surgical elastic sounds super, but

It has no protective cover, it is likely to prove exhorbitant and you'd best be an NHS manager to know where to get the stuff; after you've put it to the committee and comissioned the purchase - for two hundred rolls, most of which will end up in the tip as it will have gone out of date before use.

But as Grum says elsewhere, "I digress...."

Bungy is 'relatively' cheap and lives in a chandlers somewhere reasonably near your launch site.

Paulie, what success have you NOT had with bungy; what were you trying to do?

CW

[philoxuk]

Some of us use it for launching models.....


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10m-Silicon-Rubber-Bungee-Launch-Cord-EDF-Glider-UK-/370531793583?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item56456a7aaf

It looks like he also has some thinner stuff too. You probably wouldn't want to leave it in the sun though, lest the bounce goes out of your bungee, although regular bungee suffers from that too.

Cheers,

Phil.

[AdrianG]

Surgical tubing can be found in many scuba diving shops, for strapping kit in a secure but accesible manner. The thick stuff is quite tough (requiring quite a pull to stretch even a little bit). The thin stuff might be more applicable (if at all). Maybe yor local dive shop will have some that you can twang a bit?
:)
Kind regards
Adrian

[tony waller]

It’s a goodpoint about protecting surgical tubin, especiallyg from UV. For small quantities, try an aeromodelling shop – it is used as an elastic for launching model gliders and is amazingly effective. Tony

 

From: Chris Waite [via UK HBBR Forum] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 24 October 2011 11:45
To: tony waller
Subject: Re: What's really happening down at Port-Na-Storm

 

Surgical elastic sounds super, but

It has no protective cover, it is likely to prove exhorbitant and you'd best be an NHS manager to know where to get the stuff; after you've put it to the committee and comissioned the purchase - for two hundred rolls, most of which will end up in the tip as it will have gone out of date before use.

But as Grum says elsewhere, "I digress...."

Bungy is 'relatively' cheap and lives in a chandlers somewhere reasonably near your launch site.

Paulie, what success have you NOT had with bungy; what were you trying to do?

CW

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[alopenboat]

OK, thanks for all the answers. I hadn't thought of model shops.


On 24 Oct 2011 at 6:19, tony waller [via UK HBBR Forum] wrote:

>
>
> It's a goodpoint about protecting surgical tubin, especiallyg from UV.
> For small quantities, try an aeromodelling shop - it is used as an
> elastic for launching model gliders and is amazingly effective. Tony
>
>
>
> From: Chris Waite [via UK HBBR Forum]
> [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 24 October 2011 11:45
> To: tony waller
> Subject: Re: What's really happening down at Port-Na-Storm
>
>
>
> Surgical elastic sounds super, but
>
> It has no protective cover, it is likely to prove exhorbitant and
> you'd best be an NHS manager to know where to get the stuff; after
> you've put it to the committee and comissioned the purchase - for two
> hundred rolls, most of which will end up in the tip as it will have
> gone out of date before use.
>
> But as Grum says elsewhere, "I digress...."
>
> Bungy is 'relatively' cheap and lives in a chandlers somewhere
> reasonably near your launch site.
>
> Paulie, what success have you NOT had with bungy; what were you trying
> to do?
>
> CW
>
>
>
>
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--
Hoping for calm nights

Alastair Law,      
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>          

[John P]

Hi,
The way I see it, when you are not under way you have to hold the rudder up so that it doesent rub on the ground or seabed and when you are under way you have to hold the rudder down with something that will give way if the rudder blade hits something. Holding the rudder down with something that wont give way seems very risky to me.

Holding the rudder blade up is easy, on my boat a string to a cleat (clam cleat actually) does the job.

There are several possibilities for holding the rudder blade down. These include an elastic cord, a non-elastic cord to a cleat that releases on overload (I believe these are a stock item) or just weight the rudder blade. I am not keen on weighting the rudder since its extra weight one could do without and weight alone may not overcome friction with the cheeks when there is some side pressure on the rudder blade. I use an elastic cord (bungee cord). One end is attached to the rudder blade inside the rudder stock and it leads up over a pulley at the top of the rudder stock to run along the top of the tiller (it could run along the bottom of the tiller, but I think that having it on top makes it a bit easier to grab in a hurry). The free end of the bungy has a hook that can be hooked onto a fitting on the top of the tiller. When you want to lift the rudder you first unhook the bungy so that the lifting cord does not have to pull against the bungy - that makes it much easier to lift the rudder. When you want to lower the rudder you release the lifting cord from the clam cleat then stretch and hook on the bungy so that the blade drops and stays down, but will lift on impact with an obstruction. An advantage of having the hook on the end of the bungy is that when you pull hard on a bungy cord the outer sheath becomes tight and then it is no longer elastic. This means that if you are desparate to get the rudder blade down to steer away from some obstruction, but the rudder blade is stiff in the cheeks and it wont go down just with the elastic tension in the bungy, you can unhook the bungy and give it a good pull to force the blade down.

Sounds complicated I know, and it is more complicated than some of the arrangements I have seen, but it does seem to work well on our boat.

Another useful feature is to be able to lift the rudder blade well up so that when the boat dries out on uneven ground, for example in a narrow gully at the bottom of a drying creek, the blade will be high enough not to suffer damage if the rudder is left shipped on the transom. Al's Paradox (and other Paradoxes I guess) is an extreme example since the blade on that boat can swing through 180 degrees to point vertically upwards, a nice arrangement.

John