wire for to stitch with.

[Nesting Ray.]

Just been on eBay looking for 16swg baling wire, it all looks expensive to me, most of it is for the making of jewellery and either copper or sterling silver plated. Where can thrifty home builders acquire the the nessesary kit. Also which is the preferred method zip ties or wire? I am getting equipped for my first foray into your world of boat building in the new year and want to do the correct procedures. Ray.

[Port-Na-Storm]

Hi Ray,
I think most use the earth wire from old electrical cable if you can get your hands on some.
I know some people have built several boats from the same lengths.
I've used cable-ties in the past, they work OK, but of course don't want to back off again unless you can get hold of the type which can release.  Use big ones, at least 150mm, keep everything very loose at first and tighten up gradually.

Cheers Graham

[Paul H (admin)]

Ray,

Find a local sparky who has stripped out non-EU harmonised black and red cable from an older property (lighting or power grade).

It cannot be fitted to new installations so it only has scrap value. Strip off the insulation and you will have several metres of copper wire for stitching.

-Paul

PS: New EU colours are brown and blue, so red and black has to be scrapped. Sparky at work gave me rolls of heavy duty black/red for wiring MilliBee for free because he had no use for it.

[alopenboat]

On 17 Dec 2013 at 9:52, Nesting Ray. [via UK HBBR Forum] wrote:

>
>
> Just been on eBay looking for 16swg baling wire, it all looks
> expensive to me, most of it is for the making of jewellery and
either
> copper or sterling silver plated. Where can thrifty home builders
> acquire the the nessesary kit. Also which is the preferred method
zip
> ties or wire? I am getting equipped for my first foray into your
world
> of boat building in the new year and want to do the correct
> procedures. Ray.

Also consider heavy duty monofilament nylon which, like cable ties
can be left in and cleaned off with a knife/plane/sander.

The last boat I stitched up I used copper wire stripped out of old
electrical cable.

--
Hoping for calm nights

Alastair Law
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>

[Chris Waite]

I went through the electric wire stripping process

Then carefully, obeying the OCD voices in my head, removed both sides of all stitches, using an epoxy fillet and even small tabs of glass fibre where the seam was too shallow to take any depth of filler:



It has since occurred to me - "What an idiot, Christopher!"  If you're going to remove all the evidence, why bother stripping electric flex; (and really, why bother to strip it anyway)?

Just use ordinary steel garden wire

Christo the W

[eric17]

Hi Chris,
if you don't take off the wires, you will have to make much thicker fillets : heavy and expensive... :-(
With nylon electric wires, you can cut them, and sand them flat easily.

It would be nice to find a "one shot method" to make the fillets...

Eric

[Nesting Ray.]

Cheers lads. Never gave it a thought, copper wire eh. Well you live and learn. Have about 20 ft of the stuff on a roll somewhere 2*5 twin and earth just the ticket. Will start stripping before the scrap man gets his mits on it. Saving money already. Thanks again. Ray.

[Nesting Ray.]

Cheers lads. Never gave it a thought, copper wire eh. Well you live and learn. Have about 20 ft of the stuff on a roll somewhere 2*5 twin and earth just the ticket. Will start stripping before the scrap man gets his mits on it. Saving money already. Thanks again. Ray.

[Timmo]

I've used both wire and cable ties. Generally found wire made it easier to get panels lined up properly though cable ties were quicker and, as you say, can simply be sanded off.

When I've used wire ties I have, like Chris, always removed them. Feels like littering leaving them in. Didn't seem to increase the size of the fillet, indeed I think it did the opposite in my case. The fillet would have been bigger had it needed to cover the wire ties. It does take a very small dab of epoxy to tack the hull together quite enough for the ties to come out before the fillets go on. In fact, the tacking seems to work best when buttered into the joint so it's right out of the way.

On that basis I also go for the cheapest galvanised wire I can find. Copper is extortionate nowadays.

Tim.

On 18 Dec 2013, at 12:16, eric17 [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Chris,
if you don't take off the wires, you will have to make much thicker fillets : heavy  and expensive... :-(
With nylon electric wires, you can cut them, and sand them flat easily.

It would be nice to find a "one shot method" to make the fillets...

Eric

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[Paul H (admin)]

Timmo,

Scrap household cable is about £1.50 per kg (price goes up and down) and I expect you get a awful lot of stitches per kg:

http://www.londonscrapcable.co.uk/

So its worth doing a deal with a local sparky or visiting a scrap cable merchant.

-Paul

[Timmo]

Good point, I was thinking of new cable costs.

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Paul (admin) [via UK HBBR Forum]" <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: wire for to stitch with.

Date: 18 December 2013 17:36:52 GMT

To: Timmo <[hidden email]>

Timmo, 

Scrap household cable is about £1.50 per kg (price goes up and down) and I expect you get a awful lot of stitches per kg: 

[simplesimon]

Disadvantage of steel - it's tough to cut, won't sand down, damages tools, and if you leave it in you run the risk of rusting which cracks the epoxy fillet (as steel expands when it rusts).

Advantage of copper electrical cable - it's easily available in short lengths* (Homebase et al, or an electrician), easily bent and twisted, won't damage steel tools, and has good enough heat conductivity that you can withdraw it from an epoxy fillet by heating the end (soldering iron) and just pulling it out. Also corroded copper is not significantly larger than the clean stuff, so if left in, less risk of cracking.

* I think my 16ft canoe used about 3 metres of 1.5mm^2 twin core and earth

Just my 2p-worth
Simon

[Chris Waite]

I'm sorry I didn't make myself more clear Simon

I only suggested steel wire as I indicated above, I make a point of removing all parts of the stitching, substituting small squares of GRP tape or dabs of fillet and entirely removing the stitches, before fully filleting and taping the seam.  

I would never leave any ordinary (non-stainless) iron product in the build and the common or 'garden' wire I have in mind is the skimpy galvanized, or plastic coated variety, which snips a treat with just a pair of wire cutters.

Chris