CCC 2013

[Tom]

Rolling on the floor laughing!!!

Good for you Alan, it's ALL part of the process.

Continue to evolve my friend.

I'm celebrating because yesterday I landed a sponsor for my race.

-Tom

On Jun 4, 2013 4:36 AM, "Alan [via UK HBBR Forum]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I hate this ridiculous competition so much that I'm planning to cut up Four Candles after the event to prevent all this time wasting next year. I have ended up with two "conventional" long shafts and propellers in water. Even the lifting mechanism for weed removal has been simplified until it barely works. But what fun we'll say we had after the event!
'Look forward to seeing the HBBR and ABBA people, and having time for a chat.

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NAML

[Joe]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's had last minute problems!

I did try the planing hull idea like Dennis, and decided last week that I didn't think you could describe how our boat moved as "planing" - I clocked it at 5.5 mph with 4 drills. So we cut our losses and recommissioned last years canoe. Man-weeks of effort spent on the planing boat, and back where I was just after the competition last year!

I hope everyone going has a successful end to their trials and look forward to seeing the competition at the weekend!

Joe

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Tom [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Rolling on the floor laughing!!!

Good for you Alan, it's ALL part of the process.

Continue to evolve my friend.

I'm celebrating because yesterday I landed a sponsor for my race.

-Tom

On Jun 4, 2013 4:36 AM, "Alan [via UK HBBR Forum]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I hate this ridiculous competition so much that I'm planning to cut up Four Candles after the event to prevent all this time wasting next year. I have ended up with two "conventional" long shafts and propellers in water. Even the lifting mechanism for weed removal has been simplified until it barely works. But what fun we'll say we had after the event!
'Look forward to seeing the HBBR and ABBA people, and having time for a chat.

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NAML

-Tom

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[Alan]

Nice to see messages of encouragement and tales of wretched panicking coming in.
Paul, as you seem very interested in quiet electric power I'll bring my electric outboard, as seen elsewhere on this forum, along with a hefty nicad pack which is easy to stow on a small boat and which could possibly be tried out on the lake or the river. If we can't try it, it can at least be displayed and we can twiddle the knob that makes it go.
Bringing the nicads depends on a charger power supply arriving very soon from ebay.

Edit: If Jeremy is coming it would be great if he could bring his ultra low power ultra efficient outboard.

[Tom]

Hydrofoil assist, it's what "planing" is all about...

Next year...

-Tom

On Jun 4, 2013 2:52 PM, "Alan [via UK HBBR Forum]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

[3styler]

That is where I think this competition has a purpose, developing more efficient hull, which work with low power sources.......

Simon. 

Sent from my Crackberry

From: Tom [via UK HBBR Forum]

Sent: Wednesday, 5 June 2013 02:29

To: 3styler

Subject: Re: CCC 2013 Pre Beale Panic

Hydrofoil assist, it's what "planing" is all about...

Next year...

-Tom

On Jun 4, 2013 2:52 PM, "Alan [via UK HBBR Forum]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

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[Dennis A]

Hi Joe
Without knowing any details of your boat, I suspect that your propeller was not developing the thrust that should be available with 4 drills.Based on data from Waterbiking.org hull design, hull resistance increases by a 4 factor as speed increases by 2.15.  My AirGlider did 3.4 mph therefore you should have achieved 7.3 mph at least. This data shows that for a given drag at under 13.5 mph the most efficient hull is the slender monocraft.  Planing hulls only win when fully planing but like hydrofoils low weight is critical.

Dennis

[Alan]

The sun mainly shone, I managed to talk to a few HBBR people, Mrs Four Candles persuaded me to enter the sunday race after a big sulk on saturday, and Joe was doubly victorious, winning both races with a boat unchanged from last year.
He was also magnificently generous and sporting by donating his prizes to myself and Dennis. All the more humbling as it wouldn't have entered my head to do the same if I was in his position.

[Tom]

Any pictures from the events available for viewing?

On Jun 10, 2013 10:36 AM, "Alan [via UK HBBR Forum]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

The sun mainly shone, I managed to talk to a few HBBR people, Mrs Four Candles persuaded me to enter the sunday race after a big sulk on saturday, and Joe was doubly victorious, winning both races with a boat unchanged from last year.
He was also magnificently generous and sporting by donating his prizes to myself and Dennis. All the more humbling as it wouldn't have entered my head to do the same if I was in his position.

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[GregHBBR]

My Brother sent me these...









He provided no captions or other information, so I'd love to be able to tell him all the background to his images.

[Joe]

Hi all,

I took some video from the event and put it on youtube here: http://youtu.be/nsJGRKD-DFI

Despite having a whole day to prepare for Sundays event I forgot to put the camera on my boat, so I don't have any footage of the carnage from that event. Does anyone else have some footage of that? I'd like to see what my fire looked like!

Joe

[Alan]

Joe,
I can tell you that the fire looked dead cool from behind; very dramatic and smelly!
If we go to Henley TTBR I plan to use the Makita as a third motor to try to get closer to your speed.

[simplesimon]

[Port-Na-Storm]

Here's a video of the heat between Fast and Pagan.



or here Fast V pagan

Can anyone remind me of the name of the folding boat something tail I think.

Cheers
Graham

[3styler]

Many many thanks for posting that. Is there any chance you could email us a copy?

As a first time entrant I had a great weekend. I agreed with the summing up at the awards ceremony when they said it was the year of plan B. I did not have time to sort plan B so had to run with plan A with predictable consequences. (a planning boat which did not plane, with an over pitch prop which cooked the drills......)

However, I would not have built my boat without the motivation of the competition and the friendliness and atmosphere were brilliant. No regrets.

I think it is interesting what the key challenges were. Before the weekend it was all about making something plane (three attempts later and nobody can yet........watch this space though - Dennis???) and concerns about battery life. In fact the big challenge was overloading the drills and them cutting out / catching fire (delete as appropriate).

In some ways it seems a cordless drill is a bit like an athlete - Capable of short burst of high energy followed by a break, or alternatively good for a longer lower powered continuous run. So cordless boats have a lot more in common with pedal powered ones and this should guide where this competition goes - more medium distance than sprint, more emphasis on easily driven, manoeuvrable hulls.

I will be reading next years rule with great interest....

Simon

Many thanks for the CCC feedback, Simon and for taking part in just the right spirit.

More thoughts, suggestions, whatever, from entrants and prospective 2014 entrants would be very welcome... though please remember we have to satisfy both the sponsors and avoid too much disruption to the other displays etc on the lake.

Pete G
Water Craft

[Paul H (admin)]

[e-mail] wrote

More thoughts, suggestions, whatever, from entrants and prospective 2014 entrants would be very welcome... though please remember we have to satisfy both the sponsors and avoid too much disruption to the other displays etc on the lake.

Pete G

Pete,
Thanks once again for organising a fun event. One of your colleagues suggested that "endurance" would be a future concept and I whole heartily agree.

That will need a tad more power and rather than use (expensive) cordless batteries with limited power I would set a standard around cheap and cheerful alarm batteries.

You can pick up 7Ah (amp-hours) batteries for £17 in Screwfix:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/sealed-lead-acid-battery-12v-7ah-100-x-65-x-151mm/38315

These have at least 2 times the capacity of a cordless battery for a fraction of the price. A Makita 3Ah battery is an eye watering £139 in Screwfix:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/makita-194204-5-18v-3ah-li-ion-battery/81630

So £17 for a 7Ah alarm battery compares to £324 for shiny Makita cordless drill batteries of the same capacity.

The alarm battery contains lead-acid gel, it is sealed and safe to invert or drop in the water. But it won't charge as fast and is too heavy compared to drill batteries. However the vast majority of electric boats use lead-acid technology for its low cost to power ratio.

So why not set the "endurance" race around simple 7Ah alarm batteries which are as cheap as chips and safe to use. Let people use any motor they want, although cordless motors are not designed for sustained speed and there are better more efficient motors out there... but that is part of the challenge for experimenters.

I can see my suggestion may cause an issue with sponsors, but everyone will use a cordless drills building their boats so a drill is still a relevant prize.

regards
-Paul


PS: An alarm battery is very useful to charge a phone/tablet whilst on a boat. A HBBR member used one to keep his iPhone charged on the post-Beale Raid. Also a DCA member uses an alarm battery for navigation lights on his Mirror dinghy. Alarm batteries are 12V and can be charged with a good quality car battery charger.

[Joe]

Hi all,

Just a thought about the above suggestion of an endurance event-

While I completely agree that it a very interesting challenge, I fear it would go down the route of scholarly research, crash diets and computer simulations! I wouldn't expect many deviations from the ideal slender monohull!

I think the use of cordless tools brings out the British eccentricity and the typical show-goer can enjoy seeing the novel ways tools have been used.

It also keeps the races short and doesn't dominate the lake.

Regards,
Joe

[Alan]

Paul, you can get a genuine Makita 3Ah 18v battery for £70 on ebay, or a clone for £38. I bought a Bosch battery for £65, and Screwfix are doing the battery for their Hitachi drill for £50. Also, I don't think you will get anything like 7Ah from an alarm battery unless you use it in a 10 or 20 hour endurance race, and nobody would want that. In my experience they have a short cycle life too.
Even a 1 hour race would be quite boring so maybe somewhere between 2 and 10 laps of this years course might work. I thought that one race with everybody in it probably made for better entertainment, anyone else agree? On the other hand I would have been stuffed with only one race due to my lack of preparation - I did my "development" between heats.

Apologies for not bringing the electric outboard to show off; I didn't have suitable parts to make an adapter from lead battery terminals to "Deans" connector on my nicads.

[3styler]

Alan wrote

Even a 1 hour race would be quite boring so maybe somewhere between 2 and 10 laps of this years course might work. I thought that one race with everybody in it probably made for better entertainment, anyone else agree?

I am tending to agree with Joe and Alan.

Regardless of their suitability for powering boats this competition needs the cordless drills bit to retain its eccentricity / quirkiness which attracts interest.

Six lengths with the entire fleet, maybe with the last third of the field eliminated over three races would be an interesting format.(i.e. first race 9 entrants, second race fastest 6, third race fastest 3). I thought the Sunday race with the entire (working) fleet was exciting to watch - the turns around the buoys added drama and interest. (not withstanding flames)

Simon

[Jeremy]

I may have mentioned this before, I can't remember, but I've always thought it would be good to have an element of practicality about the CCC.

Something along the lines of having to motor out from the slip to the jetty, pick up a passenger, and return, to simulate the sort of trip out from shore to a mooring and back.  Restrict it to a single drill and a single battery pack, and it could add a very practical element to the development of CCC boats.