Camping in a Punt

[Chris Partridge]

I say chaps...
I am thinking about building a cheap'n'cheerful punt for this year's expotition. Jim Michalak's Polepunt has many of the features I find attractive, notably an unobstructed space 8ft by 3ft to sleep in.
The question for you experienced sleepers in boats is, is that beamy enough? I don't want to suddenly find myself on a midnight swim.
Any wider and it gets difficult to put on top of the car.

[Jeremy]

Easily.  

Punts have a very high initial stability because they are flat bottomed and carry their full beam for almost the whole of their waterline length.  It's the reason you can stand up on one without it feeling as if it's going to capsize.

Even the Duck Punt, which has tapered ends and so far less initial stability, feels pretty stable, and that only has a beam of of around 33" at the waterline.  I'd happily sleep in the Duck Punt on a river or sheltered spot, so I'd say that a "proper" pole punt would feel rock-solid.

[Chris Adeney]

I have just noticed this as I've not been looking at my computer due to pressure of work. Paddling on the Kennet and Avon Canal last year  I was thinking of my ideal raid boat and came to the conclusion that a punt might be a good bet as you get the maximum space and stability in the minimum size boat. Also there is a large flat area suitable for sleeping on.The idea of not having to look for camping sites certainly apeals.  In addition to this it should be easy and relatively cheap to build. How are you thinking of propelling it? Are you going to punt it or paddle it or do you think it would be possible to row it? I willbe retiring in 11 weeks and two days so should have more time to play.
Chris A.

[Timmo]

Bit slow responding myself.

I share the caution re unstable sleeping platform, waking underwater in the death grip of a soggy sleeping bag dragging you down... too much imagination!

Zelva is only 4ft or so wide at the gunwales, probably less than 3ft at the waterline and she's not flat bottomed yet is stable enough for me to walk around in and feels utterly safe when lying down. 3 ft sounds plenty for a punt. If you can comfortably stand up to pole it then it should be more than stable enough when lying down.

Great shape for camping aboard. Being parallel sided will make rigging a tent really easy, flat bottom means you can use an ordinary folding chair when you want to be comfortable, even a table. Almost like camping ashore, only free!

Also curious about propulsion. Punt's offer so many choices: where the waterway's wide enough you could row. With a high enough seat and long enough paddle (neither extremely so if only 3ft wide) you could use a double bladed paddle. That's in addition to the single paddle and poling options. Plenty of room for an electric trolling motor somewhere, though recharging will be an issue. I'm sure you've also considered a Mirage or other pedal drive. A version of the very ingenious and extremely effective pedal-yuloh would work well. Would even sail down or across the wind.

Just for the fun of changing which muscle groups you're using a choice of propulsion methods seems a good idea. 

Incidentally, is there a plan for any event(s) this year? There's currently no shortage of water (hope everyone here still has dry homes) so we should probably plan for a drought come June. I have the week after Beale clear for something in my diary. If there's no other group thing happening I was pondering going for the big loop (from home down Oxford Canal and Thames to Beale then down Thames, up Grand Union from Brentford to Braunston then back down Oxford canal to home.) Would therefore be heading down Thames for the days following Beale, a trip we've done before. Any other ideas?

Sorry. Will stop thread hijack!

Tim.

On 11 Feb 2014, at 12:53, Chris Adeney [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I have just noticed this as I've not been looking at my computer due to pressure of work. Paddling on the Kennet and Avon Canal last year  I was thinking of my ideal raid boat and came to the conclusion that a punt might be a good bet as you get the maximum space and stability in the minimum size boat. Also there is a large flat area suitable for sleeping on.The idea of not having to look for camping sites certainly apeals.  In addition to this it should be easy and relatively cheap to build. How are you thinking of propelling it? Are you going to punt it or paddle it or do you think it would be possible to row it? I willbe retiring in 11 weeks and two days so should have more time to play.
Chris A.

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[Paul H (admin)]

I suspect a punt will work extremely well with an electric trolling motor - but Chris can easily give it some V8 turbo-charged propulsion.

-Paul

[Chris Partridge]

Thanks for the sage advice. Sounds as if it could work. I will start looking out for some cheap exterior ply.
The plan is to pole - I really enjoy punting and have an excellent guide to the subject written by a Victorian owner of my grandparents' place in Wallingford. A paddle will be secondary propulsion.
Really interested in the part of the trip down to Beale including the canal and river. Doing the downstream leg would depend on commitments.

[BrianP]

Flo-Mo has a one sheet punt, might be a little small, but he often produces versions in different sizes.

Just thought you might enjoy looking her over.

Build blog here

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?174041-One-sheet-punt-designed-by-Flo-Mo

Brian

[Chris Partridge]

A nice design, Brian, but I couldn't lie full length in it let alone sleep....

[Jeremy]

Looks to be around 12ft LOA, so sleeping in it might be possible (without the decks added in the version Brian linked to).  The free board might be a bit on the shallow side for a camping punt, but otherwise I think it's a pretty neat exercise in what you can get out of a single sheet of ply.

[Paul H (admin)]

Chris,
You know you always win the biggest bloke in the smallest tent award. ...so go for the smallest boat award

Paul

[BrianP]

Chris, would a 16' version be big enough, or a bigger version still, say 20'. I have dropped Stefan a line to see if he has a 2 or 3 sheet version drawn up. He is always up to something interesting.

http://flo-mo.weebly.com/boat-design-studies.html

Brian

[Timmo]

Waterline length...

I know it's a simplistic interpretation of hydrodynamics and ignores the issue of wetted surface area, what the actual hull speed is and any consequence for transporting the boat but I'm very fond of the 'longer is easier to push along' school of design.

16 to 20 ft will, I think, make for an easier day on the water than anything shorter, quite apart from giving a lot more living space and a good long walk after planting the pole..

Worth thinking about a couple of watertight bulkheads either end of the sleeping area so you can put a tent over it and be confident water falling elsewhere on the punt won't migrate into that zone. They don't have to be full height. Clearly this year there will be no rain on any HBBR event, only wall to wall sunshine and warm balmy evenings. But, just in case, think about keeping most of the rain out of other areas as well somehow. Several inches of water in the fore and aft sections of a punt could seriously change it's stability curve.

Hope this one comes to fruition, it sounds like a really good idea and I'd be intrigued to see it in reality.

Tim.


On 25 Feb 2014, at 10:10, BrianP [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Chris, would a 16' version be big enough, or a bigger version still, say 20'.
>
> Brian

[Paul H (admin)]

I agree with Tim, the longer the better.

Go for 16ft at the sides, assuming they are parallel, which are easily cut and butt joined from two 8ft panels. Make one 8ft pattern to the correct curve, then duplicate it another 3 times - clamp all 4 together and plane to be identical.

Then skin the bottom with whatever fits easily between bulkheads. I'd be tempted to glue several lengths of 10mm x 10mm stringers bent along the sides as best you can, when glue is dry trim to the curve with a jigsaw/plane. Then you can quickly glue and screw the bottom panels to the sides without faffing around with 32ft of epoxy fillets.

Definitely add the buoyancy compartments which can double up as rainproof storage using kayak watertight hatches or the bog standard round hatches.

Timmo has a built-in A-frame for his tent, you could do the same but with parallel sided tent frames.

Loadsaspace Governor.

[Timmo]

Or just pitch a cheap tent on her!

On 25 Feb 2014, at 20:27, Paul (admin) [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Timmo has a built-in A-frame for his tent, you could do the same but with parallel sided tent frames. 

[Jeremy]

I think I'd be tempted to forget about adding buoyancy chambers fore and aft, as they take up space.  As Punts are flat bottomed, I'd be inclined to glue a layer of 1" thick foam along the whole of the bottom, covered with a couple of layers of epoxy glass.  As well as providing buoyancy, this would provide some useful insulation for those planning on sleeping onboard.

[Paul H (admin)]

The foam is an excellent idea. 6mm ply would form a good deck - less work than glass fibre but heavier.

Paul

[BrianP]

Stefan, Flo-Mo, did not have a larger punt, nor time to develop one just now. He did kindly send some details of an Austrian punt, a Zille, that is still being made, so I thought you might like to see the build video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XDUIf7IG2BU

His smaller punt has quite striking similarities to Chris's builds in the way it is cut out leaving minimum waste.



and the waste



Brian

[Chris Waite]

ChristoPart

I'll design a punt for you if that would help?  They really are about as simple as you can get and great fun - punted, paddled, or rowed.  Looking back, you reckoned about three foot beam, but how long? Sixteen to twenty feet would maximize the use of the ply.

Hold on, the mind's starting to go into overdrive....

I think Meyer Timber ( http://www.meyertimber.com/Contact-Us/Southampton-(1).aspx ) in Southampton docks does ten foot by five foot ply sheets; birch is good and 6mm would suffice with strengthening runners around the place, though 9mm would improve rigidity.  Two pieces would give you a three foot wide floor with one foot high sides and at eighteen foot long, enough for two bulkheads.

I suggest two, because it would be sensible and easy with decks over stern and bow, to have buoyancy chambers under each, though I know punts usually only have one decked end.  A removable centre thwart with rowlock outriggers attached.

In my head, it's as good as built; press 'Start'?

The Doubtful Designer himself

CW



 

[Chris Partridge]

Now that is an offer I cannot refuse.
I was going to deck over both ends to provide more storage space (hell, this isn't going to look like a traditional river punt anyway).
And I was going to make it divisable into three parts, a central box with full-height ends and a pair of decked-in ends which would bolt on to the ends of the box. Strong and no leaks. The central box will be small and light enough to get on top of the Focus without too much trouble, and the ends will go in the back.
I have done a sketch, largely because I have come into possession of a wonderful Bluetooth stylus called Pencil and I cannot resist playing with the tech:

[Chris Waite]

When do we start?

The W. of the Cees