MilliBee with a haircut?

[Paul H (admin)]

Well here we go, some epoxy time. Quite a puzzle to get the bridge deck supports horizontal and at the right height....but I got there eventually. The deck will be in two halves; a removable plate with small drainage holes will cover the slot.




Take note of the grey spring clamp. It belonged to my Grandfather, who fought in World War 1. He was shot in the shoulder and thigh and got a medical discharge. He later worked at the Gloucester Aircraft Company (GAC) in Brockworth, literally a mile up the road from where I live. In the 1930s he built experimental wooden aircraft and used that clamp. In the 1940s Frank Whittle prototyped his jet engine on the same runway.

Went to the Remembrance Parade today, thought about all the mates he lost. I hope he would be proud of my boat building.

GAC has long gone....they built a Tesco supermarket at the end of the runway. There's progress for you

-Paul

[Paul H (admin)]

Centreboard Slot

The red circle highlights the board slot - notice it is about 20mm below the cockpit seating.

Bridge Deck

Here is a preview of one side of the bridge deck. There will be a semi-permanent cover to stop spray getting in the cockpit. I could rebate one of those flush hinges they use in pub bars.

With the cover opened one can give the board a good thump with a hammer if she dries out on the mud at Cobnor. Been there, done that, lesson learned



cheers
Paul

[Paul H (admin)]

Bridge to Captain (Star Trek)

Not glued yet but you get the idea. 2x1 chosen to make that part of the 12mm main bulkhead into a strong I-beam, compensating for the massive hole cut internally. The other cleats are recycled from a discarded fence panel the neighbour gave us. Useless bits go to Guides for camp fire, I keep the 34 x 15 lengths.

Boldly going where the designer never went.




-Paul
At that special age where inches and metric flow seamlessly together.

[Paul H (admin)]

The bridge deck is taking shape; I must thank C Dubs for educating me about how useful bridge decks can be. It removes 81 litres (or 81 kg of sea) from the cockpit and converts that to sealed indoor storage.

14 in deep it feels about right sitting on it. Great for one of my favourite bits of sailing - cooking bacon and eggs in the cockpit on a still and quiet morning. It should be flush with the side decks, a few millimetres of packing will get the heights even - it was very tricky positioning the supports for the deck. Also somehow the right side is 2 or 3 mm higher despite a lot of fiddling to get both sides 9mm below the side decks and horizontal.



Notice the inside is white, a coat of Jotun HB 2-pack primer and 2 coats of Jotun 2-pack top coat. This is to allow good visibility when it gets jammed solid with sand, mud and small stones.

The plan (subject to change when C Dubs tells me the right way to do it) is a hinged flap to seal the slot. Normally down to give a flush surface:



Then opened so that the centreboard case can be cleared easily - usually by hammering the board with a length of wood when jammed with Cobnor mud! Wayne assures me a funnel is also useful, I can't imagine why.



From inside the cabin the upper area near the centreboard case is difficult to access. So I might box that in to give shallow sealed storage for the cockpit, cutting a hinged flap from the decking, with a sloping floor that drains into the either the case and/or cockpit using drain plugs. By gluing 12mm pads to the case the drain plug's depth won't interfere with the centreboard movement.

At a certain height I could fit plugs to drain the cockpit into the centreboard case - its only about 1 or 2 inches in above the waterline so a bit trial and error is needed to find the ideal height. Sea trials anyone?

-Paul

[Port-Na-Storm]

Great to see you're making some progress with Millibee.
Well Done.
Watch out for turbulence up the back of the centreboard case.
The cover for the CB case on Coot was just a tight fit held down by bungee, and the water used to pour in when banging to windward, so I've stuck it down with a thin bead of silicone so it  can be ripped off if necessary. Keeps the water out fine.
Probably means I should have some kind of baffle fitted to the bottom of the slot to stop the turbulence in the first place, and maybe squeak another half knot when I'm trying to catch CW.
Another job on the New Year to-do list to join all the others waiting to be done.

Grum.

[Paul H (admin)]

Thank Graham,

I followed CW's strict instruction to angle the rear of the CB case to force the water down and reduce the splash upwards. Some racing dinghys use rubber flaps under the case to seal the slot; I've seen those on sale.

I've left enough space for a 9mm ply cover and EPDM self adhesive compressible door seals:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/stormguard-epdm-rubber-p-strip-white-20m/33145

Stormguard also produce a silicon self-adhesive seal, but 20m of EPDM seal will last a lot of seasons!

There is a nice brass counter flap hinge (38mm wide) available at Screwfix for the flap. I like chisel work and reckon I can rebate the hinge flush with the deck:



-Paul

[Port-Na-Storm]

Check that hinge is solid brass not just plated, likewise the screws.
In any case brass will eventually leach out its zinc content when in contact with salt water.
Good quality stainless is better, but I doubt if you get anything like marine grade at Screwfix prices.
You get what you pay for I'm afraid.  

[Paul H (admin)]

Graham,

Yes it's solid brass. But I picked up this stainless 1/2 back hinge on ebay for £10.89



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-Back-Stainless-Steel-Flap-Hinge-Sizes-Available-/251603716025?var=550505730241

Also stainless piano hinges are available, both un-drilled and this example drilled; but drilling is difficult as stainless is very hard:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-FT-CONTINUOUS-PIANO-HINGE-600mm-SOLID-BRASS-OR-STAINLESS-STEEL-/141508883135?

And a bit more digging revealed a stainless cuddy reverse hinge, which is probably ideal but might be too wide at 40mm:




On the subject on zinc leeching, MilliBee has had brass piano hinges on the cockpit locker lids for over 7 years, and apart from a polish they look fine.

-Paul

[Chris Waite]

I think Paulie

One of the most important things you need to consider is that aft of the bridge-deck there is no support for the upper edges of the ply forming the sides of the case.  This has the potential for being a very weak point if it gets hit with a foot, or some other heavy object in moments of panic.

You may already have a master plan for this, but if not, how about some horizontal knees each side at deck level, connecting from the bridge decking itself to the top of the post forming the aft edge of the case, and/or a top fixed permanently within the ply and stretching from the post forward to within the bridge-deck area?  I know this reduces your open, mud-defying, centreboard hammer area, but how much of a stick are you actually going to hit the trailing edge of your foil section board with?

The only reason my little gaffer has a large flap is that I have negligible above water area of case within the cabin, a fifty-three kilo centreplate/lifting keel needing a multiple-purchase lifting-tackle mounted just under the bridge-deck.  I'd like to pretend that it's also 'cos I'm very well endowed, but it would be a lie.

Fill in most of the upper slot strenghtheningly and have a very small hole.

Beware of making low holes in the aft end of a case; there are probably strange things happening with pressure in there.  I've also had problems trying to drain a low-lying cockpit and twice went for a tube through the lazarette and out of the transom.  

It didn't really work

Either time

CW

 

[Paul H (admin)]

Chris,

Paul Fisher's plan for a centreboard has 2x1 glued along the top edges of the case, capped with 25x95 dry screwed in butyl mastic, both inside and outside. I will do the same internally and the area you highlighted.

I need to figure out where to fix a camcleat and possibly a bullseye for the board uphaul. So knees where you suggested gives plenty of area for screwing/bolting the hardware.

The aft end is actually just where the crew would put a foot when she heels; scientifically proved by young Liza as crew. So the support also needs to be crew friendly with nowhere to trap toes, but something solid to rely on.

It's a tad late, because the floor has been refitted, but 9mm trapezoidal plates could thicken the exposed case sides to 18mm thick in the cockpit, then add knees at least 25mm thick, then wizz along all edges with a 1/2inch roundover bit in a router.

Internally the case will become a drop leaf table.

Lots to ponder...

Paul

[Timmo]

I need pictures, the words aren't conjuring up the images I need to fully understand (though provided you and Chris know what you're talking about the main objectives of the exchange are achieved.)

Got my broadband back. Wonderful!

Tim.

On 22 Dec 2014, at 17:10, Paul (admin) [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Chris,

Paul Fisher's plan for a centreboard has 2x1 glued along the top edges of the case, capped with 25x95 dry screwed in butyl mastic, both inside and outside. I will do the same internally and the area you highlighted.

I need to figure out where to fix a camcleat and possibly a bullseye for the board uphaul. So knees where you suggested gives plenty of area for screwing/bolting the hardware.

The aft end is actually just where the crew would put a foot when she heels; scientifically proved by young Liza as crew. So the support also needs to be crew friendly with nowhere to trap toes, but something solid to rely on.

It's a tad late, because the floor has been refitted, but 9mm trapezoidal plates could thicken the exposed case sides to 18mm thick in the cockpit, then add knees at least 25mm thick, then wizz along all edges with a 1/2inch roundover bit in a router.

Internally the case will become a drop leaf table.

Lots to ponder...

Paul

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[Paul H (admin)]

Timmo wrote

I need pictures, the words aren't conjuring up the images I need to fully understand

Go easy on the Cognac Tim

Chris is sensibly suggesting knees like the green areas below, and a plate on top with a bullseye hole for the board uphaul:



That would make it a lot stronger... it might have to take the full weight of the crew member if she heels 60 degrees in a bad gust/wave.

-Paul

[Timmo]

Perfect, thanks Paul. Makes sense now.

Actually works well at a purely aesthetic level too. I like curves!

Tim

On 22 Dec 2014, at 17:59, Paul (admin) [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Timmo wrote

I need pictures, the words aren't conjuring up the images I need to fully understand

Go easy on the Cognac Tim

Chris is sensibly suggesting knees like the green areas below, and plate on top with a bullseye hole for the board uphaul:



That would make it a lot stronger... it might have to take the full weight of the crew member if she heels 60 degrees in a bad gust/wave.

-Paul

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[Paul H (admin)]

I've been experimenting with a counter flap hinge on some scrap 2x1 softwood, which planed is about 43mm x 19mm and just fits in the slot.

The hinge (solid brass) fits like this.



Normally its profile would be cut into a counter top so that it fits flush. But the 39mm maximum hinge width means the wood is not strong enough to retain the fine triangular fillets at the side. Instead I cut a step across the full width.
It will all be painted so I could fill in with thickened epoxy at the sides of the hinge, and sand it fair.



I'm wondering if a plain 38mm hinge rebated would look neater.



Any comments?

-Paul

[momist]

Yes Paul,

The plain butt hinge will not reach as far into the timber as that counter top hinge, and therefore not get as strong a grip on the wood.  I see that the narrow tapered shoulder each side looks ugly, but fairing it with epoxy will not achieve any gain that I can see, and will entail a lot of work.  I'm not sure if it will look right in your situation, but a simple tapered chamfer on the sides of the wood would look better.

Ian

[Chris Waite]

Actually Paulie

The wooden cover is so narrow that the simplest thing would be to have it on a short light line tether and forget about any hinge

CW

[Paul H (admin)]

Yep. I came to the same conclusion this morning.  The planed 2x1 is a tight fit, but a loop of bungee could hold it down at the aft end. At the bulkhead a bridge of hardwood could trap the other end.

Simples?

Paul aka 'Hadders'


-------- Original message --------
From: "Chris Waite [via UK HBBR Forum]"
 
Actually Paulie

The wooden cover is so narrow that the simplest thing would be to have it on a short light line tether and forget about any hinge

CW

[Paul H (admin)]

The tempting challenge is to levitate her about 2 feet above our concrete drive - to slide in the centre board from the top to check things line up ok. The trailer beams get in the way so it must be removed.

For 99 squid an electric winch saves a lot of hard work. A 70 squid chain winch is an alternative:

 

So the real challenge is to levitate the winch, or scan ebay for some sky hooks.

I'm thinking of a Glulam or metal beam attached to our house at one end, with a portable A-frame at the other end. Here is a plan of our house and Millibee on the drive, the beam is red:



The tricky bit is the A-frame at the top end.    Any thoughts?

-Paul

[Ratcatcherjohn]

Paul 

I`ve never had a "Chain Block" fail, not even in an "Agricultural Environment".  You are only lifting once, well hopefully once, and as there is too much scope for clever electrical jiggery bu**ery to go wrong, save 20 quid and be Agricultural !!  

Cheers and a Happy New Year to All 

Motor at all times, sail if I ever learn how to and only row to the Pub or Chippy !  (with apologies) 

John

PS Chain Blocks are much more portable and have been used by myself in many unanticipated applications, including getting an Atkinson truck over 100 miles with the gearbox suspended from a chain block, obviously  well away from power sources and they last forever !

---

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 07:59:16 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: MilliBee with a haircut?

The tempting challenge to levitate her about 2 feet above our concrete drive - to slide in the centre board from the top to check things line up ok. The trailer beams get in the way so it must be removed.

For 99 squid an electric winch saves a lot of hard work. A 70 squid chain winch is an alternative:

 

So the real challenge is to levitate the winch, or scan ebay for some sky hooks.

I'm thinking of a Glulam or metal beam attached to house at one end, with a portable A-frame at the other end. Here is a plan of our house and Millibee on the drive, the beam is red:



The tricky bit is the A-frame at the top end.    Any thoughts?

-Paul

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[Timmo]

The job of suspending the winch in mid air could turn into an epic one. But a lot of fun!

Alternative is to simply jack up the cradle the boat is in a few inches at a time a corner at a time supporting it on lumps of wood till the whole thing is the necessary height. Can't picture the cradle and realise it may not allow the necessary access to the centreboard slot but, if it does, it strikes me that this approach ensures the boat is supported fiully at all times. Presume yuo're not planning on playing under it while it's dangling from a chain and slings with no other back-up support.

Tim.

On 31 Dec 2014, at 16:55, Ratcatcherjohn [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Paul 

I`ve never had a "Chain Block" fail, not even in an "Agricultural Environment".  You are only lifting once, well hopefully once, and as there is too much scope for clever electrical jiggery bu**ery to go wrong, save 20 quid and be Agricultural !!  

Cheers and a Happy New Year to All 

Motor at all times, sail if I ever learn how to and only row to the Pub or Chippy !  (with apologies) 

John

PS Chain Blocks are much more portable and have been used by myself in many unanticipated applications, including getting an Atkinson truck over 100 miles with the gearbox suspended from a chain block, obviously  well away from power sources and they last forever !

---

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 07:59:16 -0700
From: <a href="x-msg://30/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=4028190&amp;i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external" class="">[hidden email]
To: <a href="x-msg://30/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=4028190&amp;i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external" class="">[hidden email]
Subject: Re: MilliBee with a haircut?

The tempting challenge to levitate her about 2 feet above our concrete drive - to slide in the centre board from the top to check things line up ok. The trailer beams get in the way so it must be removed.

For 99 squid an electric winch saves a lot of hard work. A 70 squid chain winch is an alternative:

 

So the real challenge is to levitate the winch, or scan ebay for some sky hooks.

I'm thinking of a Glulam or metal beam attached to house at one end, with a portable A-frame at the other end. Here is a plan of our house and Millibee on the drive, the beam is red:



The tricky bit is the A-frame at the top end.    Any thoughts?

-Paul

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NAML

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