MilliBee with a haircut?

[Ratcatcherjohn]

`Morning Paul.   Tim has already come up with most of the ideas I was contemplating, nothing new there then !  You may wish to consider changing approach and think about having two channels for the bilge keels along the lines of the trailer I use for TBA.  I have now acquired some 1/2" or so  steel rod to fit into the troughs to act as rollers/ slides.  With steel / brass strips on the bilge keels and a couple of globs of axle grease she would slide on and off as in the manner of "Dinah"  (Sorry, you may be too young and definitely too well brought up for that reference!).
 
` Morning Tim, with the adjustable axle and the easy facility to extend the chassis I recon that Paul`s trailer would go to 20+ft with little effort.  But, for the moment lets try and help Paul get it sorted, it`s so nearly there.
 
BTW I do have a lightweight trailer that may nearly just suit Zelva.  
 
John
 

[Paul H (admin)]

Morning Tim, John

Further outboard is one idea - the side rollers are only to keep her upright so they could go anywhere.

Cee Dubs thinks I should trim the bilge cases close with the hull, or to follow the curve of the hull, to minimise drag. Then stuff a fender under the hull when she dries out - or temporary posts clamped in the old bilge slots could steady her while sleeping at low tide.

Paul Fisher specified 25x25 bilge runners on the original design. Those rollers have 47mm hull clearance between the wheels so one answer is staring us in the face!

Keel rollers under the bilge cases supported her firmly on the old trailer, so that is another option towards the back before the side rollers come into play.


If the axle is as far back as possible you can get at least 3m between axle and bow snubber, so it could work well with Zelva.

-Paul

[Paul H (admin)]

John,

A minor Eureka moment! Your idea of plywood, carpeted bunks would work well to stabilise her - with the keel rollers taking 99% of the weight when she is fully winched on board.

A 1ft by 6ft plywood bunk would support her nicely on the first chine or under the main bulkhead midships and best of all automatically align her centrally when winching single handed.

The ultimate solution is to bend a 6mm "bunk" around the outside of the second panel (between the chines) so it fits like a glove when fully winched. Quite flash but probably OTT!


cheers
Paul

[Ratcatcherjohn]

Paul.  A couple of weeks ago, I was looking at cobles on the beach at Boulmer, half of the launching "trailers" ( I use the term advisedly) had a piece of pipe or similar , Vee-ish  shaped, sometimes wrapped in carpet, rag or whatever,running from axle to essentially where a  bow snubber would be. They just run the boats in under power until they stop, nicely lined up, on the axle as there is no where else to go.  A bit brutal but that's commercial fishermen earning a living and getting a heavy 20 -30 foot coble ashore single handed.
 
John
 

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Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 03:28:13 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: MilliBee with a haircut?

John,

A minor Eureka moment! Your idea of plywood, carpeted bunks would work well to stabilise her - with the keel rollers taking 99% of the weight when she is fully winched on board.

A 1ft by 6ft plywood bunk would support her nicely on the first chine or under the main bulkhead midships and best of all automatically align her centrally when winching single handed.

The ultimate solution is to bend a 6mm "bunk" around the outside of the second panel (between the chines) so it fits like a glove when fully winched. Quite flash but probably OTT!


cheers
Paul

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[Timmo]

No desire to take Paul's trailer from him!

Might be interested in the lightweight trailer. Certainly want to know more.

E-mail me direct (I've lost your e-mail address in a computer update) and tell me more.

Tim.
>  
> BTW I do have a lightweight trailer that may nearly just suit Zelva.  
>  
> John
>  

[GregHBBR]

Timmo wrote

E-mail me direct (I've lost your e-mail address in a computer update)

Lost address is no excuse.

You can email anyone on the forum by clicking their avatar/username by any post (or their username on the "People" list) and following the link that will appear.

(Nabble's security system will cloak their address from you (and yours when it arrives at their end - so don't forget to tell them the address you'd prefer them to use to contact you) but the message will reach them at their registered address on the forum.)

[Timmo]

Thanks Greg.

As ever; something useful to know.  Have that uneasy feeling I should have already known it. I am among those who (being reprehensibly idle) mainly respond from within e-mail. Evidently need to spend more time on the forum itself!

Tim

On 6 Jul 2012, at 14:21, GregHBBR [via UK HBBR Forum] wrote:

You can email anyone on the forum by clicking their avatar/username by any post (or their username on the "People" list) and following the link that will appear. 

[Paul H (admin)]

Latest plan is to put side rollers inboard of bilge keels on rear cross member.

This will stabilise the hull as early and late as possible. There is a consistent 5 or 6 degree tilt angle from midships to transom, - side rollers will be 30mm above keel roller.

Under the mast hull tilts 9 degrees, so worst case tilt should be ok until locked into bow snubber....this is based on recovery from flat ground of course.

Tilt is the bottom panel angle from horizontal.

Will experiment tonight if the biblical rain eases!

Paul

Sent from my HTC phone

[alopenboat]

On 6 Jul 2012 at 7:15, adminHBBR [via UK HBBR Forum] wrote:

>
>
> Latest plan is to put side rollers inboard of bilge keels on rear
> cross member.
>
> This will stabilise the hull as early and late as possible. There is a
> consistent 5 or 6 degree tilt angle from midships to transom, - side
> rollers will be 30mm above keel roller.
>
> Under the mast hull tilts 9 degrees, so worst case tilt should be ok
> until locked into bow snubber....this is based on recovery from flat
> ground of course.
>
> Tilt is the bottom panel angle from horizontal.
>
> Will experiment tonight if the biblical rain eases!

If it doesn't you may be glad to have the boat off the trailer. :->

--
Hoping for calm nights

Alastair Law,      
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>          

[Chris Waite]

Paulie

Can those rollers not be 'spacered' outboard with blocks between the trailer frame and their verticals.

Other thoughts include locating them inboard of the trailer frame, with keel type rollers, rather than mini-guide wheels, to go under the remnants of the bilge keels.  The next thing would be to have long 'bunks', (new word on me - I assume I have understood it aright).  These start each side of the keel, rising gently to minimally support the bilges, (the true weight of the hull is all taken on central rollers), while guiding her to a vertical midships postion; these could be supplemented by guide posts each side of the trailer to make sure she ends up with the keel over the mid-line.  Here is my favourite 'Tee Dubs' on her trailer showing the long low angled 'bunks' which minimally support the bilge runners, behind the guide posts that postion her as she settles onto the trailer - it works single handed for me:



Any good?

Cee Dubs

[Paul H (admin)]

Chris,

That all sounds good.

Technically bunks run fore/aft like this:


I need to order some adjustable brackets from Snipe, used on my side rollers and the bunks above:


They clamp a 40mm square upright to a chassis member - it should be easy to fabricate a plywood bunk. Also Snipe sell complete bunks so I'll have a chat with their technical team. Hopefully they also supply adjustable keel rollers that I could use under the bilge cases.

-Paul

[Paul H (admin)]

Chris,

For trailering what MilliBee also needs is a skeg to rest on the rear roller. On my new trailer the rear roller is 12ft (3.6m) from the bow snubber which is the ideal position for supporting a skeg. It also means the rear roller can sit as low as possible, the red dots are the keel rollers in a slight curve:



Notice without a (flat) skeg the rear roller must be higher, which makes launch/recovery more difficult.

And here is the original Lynx 14 on its trailer, 3 keel rollers and 2 side rollers. Unfortunately unlike my trailer the keel rollers are in-line and not height adjustable:



-Paul

[Paul H (admin)]

Some progress in the sunny-ish weather:

I trimmed one bilge case to follow the hull curve, offset by about 1in. It was really, really hard to cut with a jigsaw...and guess which idiot left hidden screws buried in the wood ready to knacker a blade.

Here is the rough and ready cut, the grooves are where I had to cut the screws well below the surface so that I can safely plane it later:





What a breakthrough - the side rollers now fit over the bilge cases!



Notice how thick and strong the cases are below the hull. When the trials are over and the centreboard is finished I'll plane the cases thinner and glue oak runners to cover the slots.

-Paul
(well knackered)
 

[Ratcatcherjohn]

Paul     Nice to see your progress.  It`s been `hissing` down here most of the day so little progress on anything.  Don`t plane too much away, keep it agricultural, you will be glad you did when you find them big growly rocks. I`ve just found a piece of 2" x 2"..ish  steel channel to cap the slightly hogged little girlie keel on the red boat.
 
Regards  John
 

[Timmo]

Looking very neat.  The rollers fit really well there. 

Will she still dry out level?

Tim

On 7 Jul 2012, at 21:25, adminHBBR [via UK HBBR Forum] wrote:

Some progress in the sunny-ish weather:

[Paul H (admin)]

Tim,

On soft mud she will be flat-ish. Worst case is a 1 in 10 lean.

Paul

Sent from my HTC phone

[Jeremy]

That's a really neat solution.  I like the way is effectively locates the hull sideways, as well as supporting it on a really strong bit of structure.  Every boat I've owned has been dinged or damaged more on the trailer than in the water (including the Duck Punt, when I hit a big pot hole on the way back from Beale), and more often than not it's been a small sideways shift that has been the root cause.

Where did you find the sun yesterday?  It hissed down here all day...........

[Ratcatcherjohn]

` Morning Jeremy.   I was always told  "The sun shines on the righteous ."      Nuff said  !!!  
 

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Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 01:51:17 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: MilliBee with a haircut?

That's a really neat solution.  I like the way is effectively locates the hull sideways, as well as supporting it on a really strong bit of structure.  Every boat I've owned has been dinged or damaged more on the trailer than in the water (including the Duck Punt, when I hit a bit pot hole on the way back from Beale), and more often than not it's been a small sideways shift that has been the root cause.

Where did you find the sun yesterday?  It hissed down here all day...........

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NAML

[alopenboat]

On 8 Jul 2012 at 1:56, Ratcatcherjohn [via UK HBBR F wrote:

>
>
>
> ` Morning Jeremy.   I was always told  "The sun shines on the
> righteous ."      Nuff said  !!!  
>

I thought it was the other way round:

The rain fall on the just and unjust fella
But it falls more on the just, as the unjust has pinched the just's
umbrella.

Showers and sunny patches here today.

--
Hoping for calm nights

Alastair Law,      
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>          

[Paul H (admin)]

Ta Da!  

I winched her onto the trailer myself - she was resting on wooden blocks and I built a dolly to fit under the transom. I lifted the front of the trailer to lower the rear roller under the bow. Winching was smooth because the transom moved freely, as it would in water. If the lifting trick works on a slipway the axles should stay dry - its very similar to the break-back concept and when she reached the balance point the jockey wheel landed smoothly.




All the rollers are in contact with the hull - I just need to fine tune the side rollers:




There is oodles of space for the bowsprit (cue Style War II)




And its looking promising for the mudguards - Snipe sell brackets for this smaller mudguard:




The assembly is rock solid when winched tight with no flex, because the hull stiffens the trailer via the 3 keel rollers and bow snubber. There is maybe 1/8th inch wobble on the side rollers to ensure they don't take any weight.

Balance is about right as I can lift her at the jockey wheel.



-Paul